Bladder sludge

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Bladder sludge

Post by Littleboots on Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:02 pm

One of my bunnies - Sophie has recently had a bad epsiode of bladder sludge... She was passing white creamy stuff... and was uncomfy with it too Sad  She was on a course of baytril and metacam but it didnt really get to the bottom of it..... changed a/b to 1.2ml septrin daily along with metacam (a long dose ) and she seems fine now..... Any tips on avoiding this in the future as I know it can re occurr Sad 
Shes 4years old and hasnt suffered before.... Ive cut certain veggies out.... anything else I can do? thankyou
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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by cheryl'n'bruce'flo on Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:12 pm

How do your buns get their water? In humans bladder problems are often related to lack of fluid intake: I would be hugely surprised if this is not the same in rabbits. Despite what is promoted by pet shops most rabbits seem to prefer drinking from a bowl to a bottle and take much more fluid this way. So if you don't already do so a bowl would be a good idea. Also the recent article in RO on calcium is a good reference with regards to what to feed and what to avoid. It is also worth remembering that the vitamins etc that veg contains is usually obvious by it's colour. The nutrients that seem to cause rabbits bladders trouble is the really dark green leafy veg. And remember that although we often talk of herbs being a good alternative to veg parsley is exceptionally high in calcium.

It is worth checking out sources such as Galens Garden and medi rabbit for more information.


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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by Littleboots on Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:24 pm

All my bunnies have bowls.... none of them have the patience for a bottle Embarassed 
Sophie, however is not a good drinker at all.... she drinks but not loads.
Shes a bit of a porker.... and loves her greens... Ive cut out kale and corriander and never feed brocollie and the likes.... but I do feed Parsley and she loves it Shocked 
I thought flat leafed was ok...I thought it was just the curled that was bad Sad 

(Shes had bloods etc and kidneys and liver etc are fine)
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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by Tuckerbunnies on Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:28 pm

June if you don't get Rabbiting On I can send you the article if you like Smile 


Last edited by Tuckerbunnies on Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by gentl on Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:43 pm

If she loves her greens, make sure they are really wet. This can add some water to her diet. Bless her.
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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by cheryl'n'bruce'flo on Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:50 pm

Curly has a bitter taste but all parsley is very high in calcium. Brocolli heads are actually not too bad neither is coriander, infact parsley has half the calcium of parsley. I you type in google the name of the veg you want to check followed by 'calcium' it will bring up the amount per 100 grams right at the top of the search results. Dandelions also need t be fed in moderation due to being diuretics.


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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by Littleboots on Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:10 pm

Thanks everyone.... off to do some reading.... and Maysie that would be great if theres something in Rabbiting on..

What about Dill??? she loves that too.... and i give her it as she tends to be prone to gassy tummies....
Ive never had this before Sad  I cant cut everything out.... what about poor Darcey her partner

Infact Ill list what all the buns have....
Greens (sliced)
bit of k/kale (as im cutting that back as i know that ones high in calcium)
rocket
water cress
romaine lettuce
carrot (not tops)
apple
flat leaf parsley
dill
occasional bit of baby corn
corriander (but not for Sophie)

pellets are SS
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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by Tuckerbunnies on Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:15 pm

Will send that later, I'm running a bit late at the moment due to the fact I'm suppose to be sending emails and instead I'm on HH Laughing 

Dill is very good for bunny tummies we always buy it in for bunnies with upset tummies Thumbs Up 

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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by Sparky on Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:21 pm

We don't feed spring greens at all, after all the problems our lot and the Tuckerbunnies had with them.

Why does she not get coriander?

Rocket is quite high in calcium.

Dill is sky-high in calcium, which we didn't know Shocked 1516mg per 100g, parsley is only 138mg per 100g. Although I suppose you'd tend to feed more grammes of parsley than of dill...

Do you give carrot and apple daily? I'd cut that down to once or twice a week due to the sugar content.



cheryl'n'bruce'flo wrote: infact parsley has half the calcium of parsley.
Now, I am not sure that's quite what you meant Wink
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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by Tuckerbunnies on Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:23 pm

Sparky wrote:We don't feed spring greens at all, after all the problems our lot and the Tuckerbunnies had with them.

Why does she not get coriander?

Rocket is quite high in calcium.

Dill is sky-high in calcium, which we didn't know Shocked 1516mg per 100g, parsley is only 138mg per 100g. Although I suppose you'd tend to feed more grammes of parsley than of dill...

Do you give carrot and apple daily? I'd cut that down to once or twice a week due to the sugar content.



cheryl'n'bruce'flo wrote: infact parsley has half the calcium of parsley.
Now, I am not sure that's quite what you meant Wink
OMG I didn't know that about Dill and I should as I have all the calcium levels somewhere of veg Shocked 

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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by Sparky on Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:29 pm

Humum thinks she might weigh the bits that make up a typical portion of our veg tomorrow, out of interest. Broccoli might be lower calcium per 100g but we're likely to each get a heavier bit of it than something that is potentially higher in calcium.

SS pellets are actually 0.6% so 600mg per 100g. So the amounts in most veggies / herbs are relatively low compared to the pellet food.


Littleboots - another tip to try to get her drinking more is a tiny drop of pineapple juice in the water. None of our lot can resist it and drink it just for the taste, regardless of whether they are thirsty. We get one with no added sugar and although the natural sugars are not ideal either, at times it is the lesser of two evils Thumbs Up
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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by Littleboots on Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:38 pm

Sparky wrote:Humum thinks she might weigh the bits that make up a typical portion of our veg tomorrow, out of interest. Broccoli might be lower calcium per 100g but we're likely to each get a heavier bit of it than something that is potentially higher in calcium.

SS pellets are actually 0.6% so 600mg per 100g. So the amounts in most veggies / herbs are relatively low compared to the pellet food.


Littleboots - another tip to try to get her drinking more is a tiny drop of pineapple juice in the water. None of our lot can resist it and drink it just for the taste, regardless of whether they are thirsty. We get one with no added sugar and although the natural sugars are not ideal either, at times it is the lesser of two evils Thumbs Up
Thanks
I was advised somewhere else not to feed corriander as its high in calcium and to feed flat leafed parsley instead.... All very confusing.
Sophie is a very greedy bun .... shes in lounge with me now.... and nomming away .... ive never had to give much thought to the greens before... but i really need to look carefully at her diet now after this horrid epsisode
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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by cheryl'n'bruce'flo on Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:40 pm

Honestly Coriander is fine.

Dill is high per 100 grams but it is very light so you are unlikely to be feeding very much. A better alternative, and easy to grow is fennel. Buns can have the buns of florence fennel and the fronds of leaf fennel. Fennel is similar to dill in flavour but is lower in calcium and is well known to being really beneficial for gut issues.

Rocket and watercress are high in calcium as well - again much higher than coriander.

Apple is not good as it is high in sugar and also in acid that can cause sores around the mouth.

Carrots are also high in sugar so need to be restricted.

If you are a gardener then Chervil is an excellent herb for buns. You can sow now and then fleece during the winter for all winter food. It is low in calcium and buns love it.

On a forage front Brambles are in good supply at this time of year, Buns will also appreciate unsprayed rose trimmings.

You do not need to stop the high calcium foods for Sophia just don't feed loads of them.


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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by Sparky on Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:40 pm

How much does she get in the way of pellets? (and what does she weigh / what should she weigh?)

Does she eat lots of hay?

We've made a real difference to our lot this year by being really mean, cutting pellets right down and getting them eating tons of hay. They are leaner, fitter and healthier than ever before Smile 
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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by Sparky on Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:41 pm

Cheryl, can buns have the leafy bits of florence fennel?
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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by cheryl'n'bruce'flo on Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:44 pm

Sparky wrote:



cheryl'n'bruce'flo wrote: infact parsley has half the calcium of parsley.
Now, I am not sure that's quite what you meant Wink
I would have thought you were fluent in Cheryl mistypes by now! I of course meant that coriander has half the calcium content of Parsley - but it is much harder to grow No


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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by cheryl'n'bruce'flo on Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:51 pm

Sparky wrote:Cheryl, can buns have the leafy bits of florence fennel?
They certainly can and what more they love it.

I should probably explain for littleboots - I am a keen gardener, now with reduced garden, but I have a herb garden which is mostly there to reduce the buns veg bill over the year but also because I also like to use them in cooking.



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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by Littleboots on Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:09 pm

This is Sophie....


She weighs 3.2kg Embarassed 
Shes a good hay eater..... eats pellets but not very much at all really.... just loves her greens
Im so glad i can put corriander back on the menu....that will mean i can remove something else...

She is not as fat as she actually looks in this pic..... Laughing 
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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by cheryl'n'bruce'flo on Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:15 pm

I see you have some border space there. I really recommend a chervil patch. It is hard to find in the shops but seems to grow easily from seed. And like most herbs the more you cut it the more it grows. And it will keep going after flowering.

Also in Spring I would really try and find some you fennel plants, it really does not matter if it is the bulb type or the leaf type. They are perennial so will just get bigger as long as you don't disturb them and they self seed easily but not too freely. But don't grow them with at the same time as dill as they will cross pollinate.


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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by Littleboots on Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:22 pm

cheryl'n'bruce'flo wrote:I see you have some border space there. I really recommend a chervil patch. It is hard to find in the shops but seems to grow easily from seed. And like most herbs the more you cut it the more it grows. And it will keep going after flowering.

Also in Spring I would really try and find some you fennel plants, it really does not matter if it is the bulb type or the leaf type. They are perennial so will just get bigger as long as you don't disturb them and they self seed easily but not too freely. But don't grow them with at the same time as dill as they will cross pollinate.
We have a huge garden and love gardening but tbh dont really grow anything for the bunnies... other than the apple tree stix and strawberry leaves... Weve tried herbs but they just go "leggy" and by the time theyve grown and weve cut for 6 bunnies.... it seems really worthless Sad  Will def try the fennel though..
thanks Thumbs Up 
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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by cheryl'n'bruce'flo on Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:35 pm

Chervil doesn't go leggy at all. And as long as is gets some sun it seems happy to fill in gaps around other plants.

I think with a lot of herbs people wait for them to grow bushy and are then disappointed. But what they need to do it pick from the off. I bought a new french tarragon this year and it was tiny, but now it is huge and that is all down to regular harvesting. In the back (bunny area) garden I have large pots of Marjoram, applemint as well as lemon balm plants and they all have upside down hanging baskets over the top of them to stop the buns eating right down to nothing, but otherwise they seem to thrive on their regular bunny pruning. The lavender doesn't appreciate it quite as much! Buns will also appreciate it if you grow them some pot marigolds, verbena, roses (the buns love the flowers as well as the prunings) camomile, raspberry trimmings to name just a few.


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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by Sparky on Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:18 am

Sophie looks like she might be carrying a little extra weight but not really obese. Our Layla is a little heavier than she should be and when she sits or lays down it all sort of oozes and she looks quite porky. But when she is up and moving around she looks about the right shape, and she's certainly an active bun.

We've never had much luck growing things before, as you said they just bolted. I think we fretted over them too much. This year we have just planted loads of good quality seeds and let them get on with it with, as Cheryl says, regular harvests. We put dill and fennel in just six weeks or so ago and they have really taken off (they are right next to each other though, so we'll move one trough away before they flower - we didn't realise they could cross-pollinate. Thanks Cheryl Thumbs Up)

Timothy grass just went mad when it got the right amount of sun and rain - we reckon it grew about an inch a day. We've not yet been able to grow enough to keep 16 buns in greens without buying any, but they get quite a lot that is home-grown.

Mint is hard (well, impossible) to kill Wink and there are pretty shrubs too like lavendar and rosemary which seem to be pretty tough.
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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by Littleboots on Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:39 pm

Blimey I really admire those of you who grow your own... Glenn (my o/h) would have to do it as he is the green fingered one.... im hopeless... i cant even look after a houseplant Embarassed 
Def something to think about.... we have the space to do it and it would save a fortune.. x
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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by fiver on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:02 am

Awkward sending vibes for her Hugs Hugs Hugs Hugs 

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Re: Bladder sludge

Post by jolovesbunnies on Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:21 pm

My Binky loves mint, guinea piggies too.

Hugs

Jo xx

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