Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by NickieM on Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:24 pm

Littleboots wrote:Great to get the message out and warn people of the horrors of these runs
I also was shocked by the photo.... but part of me thinks.... who dashed for the camera to get a picture of such an awful accident Sad Sad   I would have been hysterical!
So would I June.   But perhaps this bun wasn't lucky enough to have been saved and its owner thought at least they could use the photo as a warning to others.  As Cheryl says, I would NEVER have thought that a rabbit could get its head through those bars, but if the metal is very soft and bendy, they something running into it at speed could just bend them enough to go through. 

To come home and find that sorry sight is just horrible, especially when you think they are safe.


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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by Littleboots on Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:37 pm

cheryl'n'bruce'flo wrote:2 things spring to mind June:

1. everyone has a camera on their phone these days and many people are never without their phones.

2. If you are unsure of the safest way to proceed you send a photo to someone who may be able to help.
Maybe so but Im still struggling with the ethics of it
The LAST thing on my mind if I found a bunny like this would be to reach for my phone or camera...

I really think this could have been a warning without this graphic photo
Like Tuckerbunnies.... it is haunting me.... I wish I had never looked!!!!!
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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by Sparky on Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:38 pm

The photo has certainly shocked me. I think that is the point though and the warning would not be taken nearly as seriously without it.
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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by Thumper2001 on Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:43 pm

I would imagine the picture was taken to send to the manufacturer of the run, to show them the damage their product did.
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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by maziebunny on Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:44 pm

Sparky wrote:That's horrific, and the couldn't-care-less attitude makes it even more so No 

Has anyone informed the RWAF and RSPCA?
I have contacted both.  Still waiting to hear from RSPCA, but SSPCA have said best next step is trading standards.  I will hopefully phone them tomorrow.

I have added a warning in my first post, I am really sorry if the image caused upset, but the picture shows it isn't a tiny bunny, and exactly how it has happened, which I felt important.  Sorry to upset you guys.

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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by NickieM on Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:46 pm

Littleboots wrote:
cheryl'n'bruce'flo wrote:2 things spring to mind June:

1. everyone has a camera on their phone these days and many people are never without their phones.

2. If you are unsure of the safest way to proceed you send a photo to someone who may be able to help.
Maybe so but Im still struggling with the ethics of it
The LAST thing on my mind if I found a bunny like this would be to reach for my phone or camera...

I really think this could have been a warning without this graphic photo
Like Tuckerbunnies.... it is haunting me.... I wish I had never looked!!!!!
I completely understand what you're saying June, but I would NEVER have believed it could happen without seeing that picture.

I think the person who took it did all of us a massive service.  I would have been so furious that I would want to make sure that nobody's bun ended up the same.  I think it was very brave of them.


Last edited by NickieM on Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:53 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : errant apostrophe! Must have a lie down, in shock.)


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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by cheryl'n'bruce'flo on Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:50 pm

Don't apologise maziebunny, I am the one who made the choice to post that image on the forum. I stand by that decision.

I looked at the photo and thought that could easily be my Flo and not just because they are the same colouring but also because it is the sort of thing she would do.


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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by maziebunny on Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:59 pm

I agree that the image is important. Is says more than any amount of words can.

If I had listened to a lady on facebook, who's bunny died, when she warned people a few months back, then I wouldn't be here with a bunny that did get hurt. I thought, no she can't possible get stuck, she is too big, gave it consideration and dismissed it. I have to live with the guilt of that and my poor wee bunny has had the most awful few weeks, as this happened a few days after her sister died (from bloat) and the vet thought the not eating, which led to stasis and hospitalisation, was due to grief of her losing her sister. It was only a week later they discovered her broken jaw Sad

But, what I can do is inform as many people as I can and try to get this enclosure modified or retracted as suitable for rabbits.

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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by NickieM on Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:03 pm

I completely back Cheryl on this.   Yes, the photograph is upsetting, but it is absolutely vital to get the message across.


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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by KatieB on Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:24 pm

Agreed!

This is a horrific picture - but I wouldn't have believed if about that cage if I hadn't seen it. That picture could be saving other bunnies lives x


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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by KatieB on Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:26 pm

The warning has been shared on our Facebook page please share folks


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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by Tuckerbunnies on Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:41 pm

I'm afraid for people like me that suffer from depression a photo like that does more harm than good, it has upset me deeply and I was already very down had there been a warning sooner I wouldn't have looked.

We are not talking just a dead bunny but a bunny who died in horrendous circumstances and the position he/her is in is what I find so disturbing.

I think it's a great thing that the word is spreading and I do hope the pens are taken off the market but I also stand by how I feel.

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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by Big Ears on Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:44 pm

NickieM wrote:
I think the person who took it did all of us a massive service.  I would have been so furious that I would want to make sure that nobody's bun ended up the same.  I think it was very brave of them.
I totally agree with this. I had read two accounts of rabbits getting their heads trapped in these runs in the past and have extremely lucky escapes - I think Sarah Jane's Pebbles was probably one of them. I carried on using panels of this run thinking they were freak accidents and unlikely to happen to us. Without this campaign and especially without that truly shocking image I might have continued to put my rabbits at risk. I'm grateful for the selflessness of the person who took that photo and circulated it as they I'm sure will be haunted by it to a far greater degree than any of us. If Cheryl hadn't posted that shocking image I wouldn't have seen it (I didn't see it on the Amazon link)... I could therefore have let it slip my mind by now and continue putting my beloved bunnies at risk by not fully appreciating the danger. That picture has shocked me but better that I see that image than find one of my own the same way!

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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by Littleboots on Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:57 pm

Tuckerbunnies wrote:I'm afraid for people like me that suffer from depression a photo like that does more harm than good, it has upset me deeply and I was already very down had there been a warning sooner I wouldn't have looked.

We are not talking just a dead bunny but a bunny who died in horrendous circumstances and the position he/her is in is what I find so disturbing.

I think it's a great thing that the word is spreading and I do hope the pens are taken off the market but I also stand by how I feel.
I also think its brilliant the word is getting round.... but do agree with you on the pic
I dont suffer from depression... but this image has really upset me too.... I dont need pics of dead or dying bunnies to make me aware of dangers.... words are enough for me...
My neighbours dog got its head stuck in the gate and broke its neck Sad I didnt need proof or pics..... but it sure made me check the gaps in our gates for Buddy.
If anyone posts this pic on my f.b page.... im afraid I will delete them.
Sorry..... maybe Im just being a bit sensitive Embarassed 
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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by NickieM on Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:12 pm

Maysie and June, I agree that it would have been better if a warning had been put onto the thread earlier.   We are not in the business of upsetting anyone.

However, June, I completely disagree with you that the impact of this campaign would work without the photograph.  You sometimes need an image to does more than paragraphs of prose can do.


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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by BugsBunny on Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:09 am

Oh my god, we have this 1 for Dougal but fortunately he does not go in it often and we always watch him in it. I will have to buy another for next year when it is warmer and he is more willing to go outside. As he has a lot of room inside I am not too worried but want to have him out now and again when warmer but not too hot of course so he can get a bit of sun and keep his claws down on the yard.

So sorry about your bun, poor thing. I will certainly not put Dougal in his next time we try then. He does not seem to like being enclosed in , he does not do much but will get a better 1 for when we do and he does.

Also about the photo, I think Cheryl you did the right thing posting it to show us, yes it makes us feel sick and shocked but it is a warning and needed to be shown. I do not think it was wrong, it is good to know the reality and like you said people think my bun is bigger it will not happen but it can. Dougal stuck his head through the baby gate when I was re doing the mesh but luckily we where next to it to back him up as his head almsot got stuck in that. I remeshed it up right away. he just did it when me and ste where working on it to make the mesh better and even more safe. I can see how he could end up doing the same in that run. Sometimes we have to face and see these awful things to realise and make us understand the real danger.

Also I did not see the post when it did not have a warning so can agree with the people who are upset too. I do suffer from depression and it does disturb me and makes it come on but I did not see it without and have read up more on the post. i can see it from both points of views in that sense.
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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by maziebunny on Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:24 pm

I have contacted Ebay customer service and they said they will look into it being sold. So waiting for them and Amazon and Bunny Business all to get back to me. If anyone else sees the same run elsewhere let me know and I can email them as well.

Also now phoned trading standards, they will refer to their people to look into it, under grounds of it not being safe for use policy. Will keep you updated.

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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by BugsBunny on Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:39 pm

that's good hun and thanks for the warning. I have 1 and am so glad I know the danger now, tbh when I read a couoke of reviews that said about the buns head being trappedI thought that they had not set it up right or been babies or very small or something. It was only 1 or 2 I saw when read it and rest seemed fine as I always research before buying so I am glad I( know for sure , that and I knew I would watch dougal in it anyway but even so after seeing that there is no chance I am putting him in it again. He has only used it 4 times or maybe 3 so am glad when he did use it that we where watching him constantly.
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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by SarahJane on Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:59 pm

Well done Maiziebunny, I think you're doing a really good job.

I have to say that I am glad you came here and told us what you have because, I've had it on my mind continuously. And I keep thinking to myself - this happened to my rabbit, why did I keep using it?

And I think for me personally, it boiled down to the fact that I didn't see it happen, so I dont have the memory. The buns had no "bolt holes" or "hideys" and they were in a strange enviroment - staying at a friends. So, in my mind I felt it was a freak accident. Pebbles was scared and she reacted in a way that she wouldnt of done at home.

So, I didn't really think too much of it. I was away at uni at the time as well so I didn't have that panic when I put the rabbits into the run, because my mum was doing it. And, like I have said before - we hear of so many accidents. Ive known a rabbit to die from choking on a pellet, one to lose an eye on bendy sticks, so many things can cause a freak accident. But, I think what I didn't realise was that actually this isnt a freak accident, it happens ALOT. So thank you for sharing your story. x



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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by paullp on Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:53 pm

I use these so Patch and Daisy can be in the garden at the same time as Myrtle. Thankfully nothing bad has happened so far but I will definitely do something to stop their heads going through the bars.

They have been wrapped in chicken wire previously when we tried bonding Myrtle and Patch to stop them from biting each other so chicken wire will stop their heads going through. The down side of that though is Patch will climb up it.

I might try wrapping it in tarp after chicken wire, then it will be taught enough so that heads cant go through and Patch cant climb it. It needs tarp so that Patch and Myrtle cant see each other now days, Patch gets very upset Sad
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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by maziebunny on Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:58 pm

I have spoken via email with the lady who lost her rabbit and posted the photo on Amazon.  She posted the photo as a warning for other people to see how dangerous she felt the enclosure was, she was so upset about it all that she wanted to make sure this didn't happen to any other family.  I am glad I have now spoken with her, and heard about her experience.

I haven't heard yet from Amazon, the original seller of mine Bunny Business, or trading standards.  I will be called them all again at the start of next week.  In the mean time, please keep sharing the warning, as more poor reviews warning been added to the original listing.

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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by FluffSlave on Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:13 pm

I bought mine from Bunny Business as well.

Keep hassling, you're doing a great job Hugs

I'll keep trying to spread the word Thumbs Up
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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by maziebunny on Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:42 pm

After contacting various people - Zooplus have come back to me with this reply,

*Thank you for taking the time to contact us.

We have reported your message to assortment for investigation.

Although we cannot guarantee Trixie Outdoor Metal Run will be delisted, we have made a strong internal argument for the case of delisting.

We remain at your disposal for any further enquiries: https://www.zooplus.co.uk/contact/.

Sincerely,
Your zooplus Service Team*


Also this reply from the RSPCA -

Thank you for your enquiry.

We were very sorry to read about your distressing experience and hope your rabbit has made a speedy recovery.

Our Companion Animal Department have liaised with the Rabbit Welfare Association & Fund (RWAF) and written a joint letter expressing the concerns of both charities. This letter has been sent to the two businesses that are listed as selling this product. A copy of the letter is also being sent to Amazon.

We have advised that the product does not appear to be suitable for rabbits as the bars are too wide and flexible, meaning there is a risk of rabbits becoming trapped and seriously injured. Additionally, we have advised that the product may also be unsuitable for guinea pigs, as they are smaller than rabbits and could also become trapped and potentially injured if their head or another body part became trapped within the bars.

We have recommended that they carry out an urgent review regarding the species this product is suitable for in consultation with species experts, and that the product description and listing information is altered accordingly. We have also recommended that a warning is added to the product description, outlining that this product may not be suitable for rabbits and guinea pigs due to the wide bar spacings and flexible wiring used.

We have also notified our Purchasing team about the concerns around this product and asked them to ensure they confirm which species the product is being purchased for, whenever they become aware of such a purchase occurring. The product appears to be suitable for a number of other species, so any RSPCA centres and branches that have purchased this item may have done so for use with species other than rabbits and guinea pigs.

Thank you very much for bringing this important matter to our attention.

Kind regards
RSPCA Advice Team


So at least things are moving in the right direction, for all the bunnies that have been hurt and injured.

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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by Father Jack on Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:46 pm

Happy Dance 
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Re: Important warning bad enclosure - WARNING v upsetting image

Post by dizzylynn on Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:56 pm

This is similar to the pen we use, BUT the bars are very strong and even I cant bend them, its designed for dogs sp its very strong, if they do push on it all they do is move it as its only secured at 1 point against there house to stop them getting under their house. After looking at this tho I am going to take extra measures & line it with the run mesh once finish my cup of tea.
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