new in need of help :-)

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new in need of help :-)

Post by cats444444 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:43 am

Hi everyone :-) im new, my names robyn and i have three recently rebonded buns, oakey, bumblebee and istvan (buck). All rebonded by a wonderful bunny rescue, i originally had the two girls who tried to kill each other, they have since been speyed and the lovely rescue lady rebonded them with istvan. Things are going well, i have got to a point where they are penned in thr lounge and have free run of kitchen at night, the end plan is to have them outside in run and hutch during the day and inside with free reign at night. I am not brilliant at reading the situation between them and tend to worry a lot about bumble and oakey fighting, oakey is a quiet submissive bun and bumble a bit of a bully i think. I thought bumble was biting oakey but after a panic and videoing it, it turned out to be a head boink that oakey was completely over reacting too (because she has been attacked by bumble before i think). Anyway fast forward to now ....bumble is chasing oakey a lot, theres no injuries or fur flying so im fairly sure (really hoping) this is just play from bumble but oakey is skittering about running away and looking generally wary of bumble, they are still eating together and occasionally mutual grooming they have stopped sleeping together though they.never really did. Istvan and bumble are very close and oakey sits out a bit but he does give her some attention sometimes. So basically what im asking is is there anyway i can calm oakey down about the chasing or stop bumble doing it? Is it just normal bunny play? Oakeys ears stay up and she will still be next to bumble straight after if theres food on offer but inbetween times she is hiding. See i really struggle reading these bunnies!
Thanks
Robyn x

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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by Amelia66 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:18 am

there is no way to completely stop the bullying, i think it most likely that oakey is the furthest down the pecking order and bumble is inforcing that. you need to make sure there are lots of things to do, and loads of hidy holes to keep them busy and give oakey a place to hide and feel secure.
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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by cats444444 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:09 pm

Thankyou for this amelia luckily oakey is a small bun compared to the other two so i maybe able to conjure something only she can fit in or at.least be comfortable in. x

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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by KatieB on Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:57 pm

Hi there ! Welcome to HH :-)

Sounds like you have your hands full!

It's quite common for one bun to be bullied a bit, but Amelia's idea of a litte hider is a good one. Is there a pattern to it at all? Meal times or anything like that?


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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by gentl on Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:31 pm

I've never had more than one bun at a time so I defer to the many knowledgeable Bunny Parents who have multiples.  I do though want to welcome you and your buns to Happy Hoppers!  My name is Holly and I live almost in the middle of the USA.  My Hubby and I are currently bunny slaves to our little lionhead named Rory.

Wave Wave Wave Welcome Robyn! Wave Wave Wave 


















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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by FluffSlave on Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:00 pm

Hi and welcome to HH Wave

I've not much experience of trios, but from what I've read it sounds as though your pecking order goes: Bumble, Istvan, Oakey. Bumble is naturally asserting her dominance. It's a good idea you've had to provide Oakey with a space where she can get away and the others can't get in. I'd just keep my eye on her and make sure she is still able to get food and drink, and mooch around without getting hassled too much. Chasing behaviour is normal dominance - and I see a lot of it with my hormonal madam and her husbun Rolling Eyes Laughing 

There's loads of knowledgeable people here, and normally a few of us who can offer advice on different things so don't be afraid to ask anything else Very Happy

I'm looking forward to talking to you around the forum, and hearing more about your fluffs Hugs
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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by cats444444 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:01 pm

Wow thankyou so much for the lovely welcome everyone! :-). The only pattern is that it happens a lot when bumbles gettin fruity with istvan but it happens other times too, its harder than in thought making a hide solely for oakey, i thought i had it cracked then bumble AND istvan got in too making the whole thing lift up (even funnier if you realise istvan is a small version of a belgian hare but still quote big looking). Back to the drawing board tonight! Thanks again everyone im glad to know it can be a normal thing :-)

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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by cats444444 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:01 pm

The chasing i mean lol

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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by Amelia66 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:06 pm

just make sure all of your hides have two entrances, so that she can go in, but also get out if one of the others are chasing her. Make sure there are quite a few in there then you should be fine even if the others can get in Smile
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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by cats444444 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:08 pm

Thanks amelia :-) i definately will! I already have some tubes in there i will get more and add some boxes with two holes :-)
Lve robyn

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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by KatieB on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:39 pm

How have they been today?  

Sending them all some lovely nose rubs.

Forgot to say earlier, that please do feel free to join in the chat if you would like to :-)


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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by cats444444 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:46 pm

Thankyou katieb :-D. Ive messed about with the cage and added a dig box and the chasing has eased and oakeys looking a bit better, this keeps happening though then the chasing starts .....75% of the time she is as happy as a bun in mud but she hates the chasing! Ill keep an eye on them tonight and see if her having places to hide at least makes her feel better :-).
thankyou, ive been reading past posts from people and its so nice to know other peoples buns play them up like this :-D lve robyn

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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by Thumper2001 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:52 pm

Hello Wave

Welcome to HH Very Happy
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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by cats444444 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:55 pm

Hi thumper :-) thankyou i really like it.here!!

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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by Thumper2001 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:58 pm

Glad to hear it! Very Happy
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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by cats444444 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:44 am

Oh dear we have hair pulling this morning :-(. little monkeys! Time for a rethink! :-(

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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by KatieB on Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:01 am

Oh goodness - Im sorry to hear that.

It might be worth popping them both in their travel basket and taking them for a spin around the block in the car. Its not an ideal solution but will prob settle them for a little while until you can come up with something else.


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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by cats444444 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:07 am

Thanks.katie :-) i dont drive.but i have done the alternative (put all three in cat box and ran up.and down the stairs then left them in another room for a little bit) thibgs being it works really well but only for a day then the chasing starts again, altho bumble has outdone herself this time pulling fur grrrr im so lost as to why, i go to loads of trouble.running round mixing scents etc etc and they look brill mutual grooming eating together etc then by the end of the day.bumble has started again and oakeys looking frightened. i was ok with the chasing but fur pulling is awful, id so have grounded her had she been one of the kids!!!
Thankyou again any ideas gratefully accepted ill try anything!
Lve robyn

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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by Father Jack on Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:13 am

OK, I've only scanned this thread so excuse me if I ask questions you've already answered.

How much space have they got? I would recommend trying a re-bond in completely neutral territory in a pen no more than 1m square with a bowl of water and keep an eye on them for a few hours. Make sure to put the boy in first and then the two girls at the same time afterwards. While they are in there, give their home quarters a full clean down, de-scent and re-arrange.
Make sure there are plenty of distractions like toys and hop ups. Toilet roll tubes and cereal packets are good free toys and cardboard boxes with holes cut in can be hides or hop ups. Also make sure there is plenty of fresh hay and two or possibly three litter trays if there's space.
Another thing to consider is that the aggression may be food related so don't get them into a specific feeding routine - try concealing food inside toilet roll tubes (one for each bun so there's no squabbling over a tube) and pack the ends with some hay, then they'll have to work for it and it keeps their minds active on food and off bullying. Another idea is to scatter pellets in their litter trays so they have to hunt for it. Try to vary feeding methods as much as you can.
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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by cats444444 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:34 am

Thanks father jack :-). The sort of temp set up i have whilst we sort this out is a pen wuth drop pins so i can make bigger smaller as needed, the rescue bonded them neutrally and i brought them back to a 1m sq pen then expanded a little every few days, thing is everytime i start giving them a bigger pen amd out time on a night bumble starts with the aggression, ive taken it back to 1m square twice and it workss brill until i start expanding and adding excercise time in, i clean out daily and unscent everything as much as i can and have tried swapping litter trays etc. I havent thought of the food thing ill definately give that a go theu currently have scatterdd hay, and three bowls with pellets. I definately think its a space thing though as always happens when i expand their space but i cant keep them confined forever :-( im so frustrated with it all! I havent given them a lot of tpys as i didnt want bumble getting territorial over them i can add some more though its worth a go. they have tubes andhides and three litter trays. thankyou so much for you reply i hope this.doesnt come across badly im on my mobile.with my.twp year

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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by cats444444 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:35 am

Oops sorry two year old climbing over me that was lol! xxx

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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by Sparky on Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:56 pm

Hi Robyn, and welcome in Wave 

You say the trouble always starts when you expand the space and let them have some free-range time? Have you done both at the same time? I'd expand their space first, leave it like that for a couple of days, then expand again etc. until they are quite settled. Expect a little more excitement each time you expand but they should soon settle. Don't worry too much if they don't get loads of exercise for a week or two, you need the bond to be strong before you let them free-range.

I also actually wouldn't worry about fur-pulling. It's part of the process of them establishing a heirarchy. We have a quad who still have little tiffs and sometimes we find clumps of fur in the hutch but all four buns cuddled up looking innocent Rolling Eyes Any group bigger than a pair seems to need to re-establish the heirarchy more often and there is definitely more chasing in our quad than other groups, you just learn to live with it, let them get on with it and not worry too much as long as you have not got one bun who is constantly stressed or being bullied Thumbs Up
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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by cats444444 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:43 pm

Thankyou so much for this sparky thats actually a big relief, i was starting to get close to splitting them i was so worried about the fur.
Im a little over cautious about it as they initially started fighting when they were stopping at bunny boarding (they were under six months and unspeyed at the time) and it the fighting went unnoticed til i got them home and oakey was so badly injured by bumble around her anal area she will always be disfigured :-( anyway theyve been speyed and rebonded since so differemt ball game now, but i do get edgy if they start being grumpy with each other so its lovely to hear other people with groups and it being normal.
i hadnt thought about it but your right i started expanding the pen at the same time i started to free range them so im putting a stop to free ranging for a couple of weeks, i have added lots of toys and hides tonight and have started spreading the food everywhere and making sure there is always plenty. The main problem i have is that bumble once she starts chasing is relentless at oakey who starts getting quite stressed but ive put into place all of your ideas and am.hoping it will help. Thankyou so much again for all of the advice its very much appreciated and thankyou everyone else too i was ready to split them and give up so im pleased to be feeling optimistic again.
Lve.robyn
ps ill keep you all updated :-)

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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by KatieB on Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:10 am

Good luck Hun xx


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Re: new in need of help :-)

Post by FarplaceRescue on Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:40 pm

How have they been today Robyn? Wave 
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