Pasturella

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Pasturella

Post by KatieB on Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:49 pm

One of our members Cats444444 is unable tos in get on the site from her phone but is in dire need of some advice.

Here is what she sent me.

Ive just had my boy, istvan, approx 1-2 yrs old diagnosed witj pasteurella, we got him from a lovely rescue who had already picked up his rattly chest and constant sneezing they vet checked him and vet diagnosed allergy, sonfor about 4 months this sneezing and rattling has been pretty bad but he has always been ok in himself I was giving him antihistamines that had been prescribed but they didnt make a huge difference. Lately hes been getting white discharge and sticky paws (still fine in himself) anyway I tried to go on a find out what the allergy is campaign and whilst googling came across pasteurella and rushed him to the vet where they confirmed it through his symptoms. They prescribed marbocyl but when I got home I realised they have only given me a 5 day course which im nearly finished and hasnt done much. He has less discharge and sounds choky less but is still sneezing and rattly so I was wondering if anyone knew if a longer course was the way to go especially with him having had it for potentially 6 months

I said that I would email her your replies.

Do you have any advice guys.

Thanks

Katie




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Re: Pasturella

Post by Father Jack on Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:51 pm

It may well be worth speaking directly to Sparky, she's a pasturella bun  Thumbs Up 
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Re: Pasturella

Post by KatieB on Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:56 pm

Sparky, would you mind if i put this lady in touch with you?


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Re: Pasturella

Post by Sparky on Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:59 pm

Katie, I've PMed you Humum's email address, get the lady to email her and we'll help all we can.
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Re: Pasturella

Post by cats444444 on Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:07 pm

Hey guys its meee Very Happy I finally managed to get on the site yeyyy! Katieb thankyou so much for posting for me and sparky thankyou ive emailed your humum Smile yeyyy at being back!
Lve robyn xx

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Re: Pasturella

Post by KatieB on Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:35 pm

Welcome back hunni xxx


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Re: Pasturella

Post by c.bolduan on Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:32 am

Lovely to have you back.
Vibes for the Bunnie

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Re: Pasturella

Post by jolovesbunnies on Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:07 pm

Welcome back sweetheart, lots of love to you and the little one.

Hugs

Jo xx

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Re: Pasturella

Post by Sparky on Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:15 pm

Edit - pressed 'send' too soon  Rolling Eyes 


Last edited by Sparky on Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Pasturella

Post by Sparky on Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:27 pm

Hi Robyn,

We've not had an email but here's the important stuff we've learned:

You need to find an antibiotic that works. We tried Baytril and Flagyl, then went to a farm drug called alamycin as a last resort. This worked. It's given by injection every 3 days and although learning to do the injections at home was quite daunting, it is so much less stressful on the bun than being given oral meds multiple times a day. Also, being injectable means it does not upset the digestion.

We had C&S tests done on a couple of buns - one didn't show anything helpful and the other showed too much that could have been contributing to snuffles Rolling Eyes. Having to take the bun off abx for 2 weeks before having the tests done can be risky in one that's having a hard time battling it even with the help of abx.

Whatever abx seem to work, you must keep giving it for at least 2 weeks after all symptoms have gone. I can't stress this enough. Snuffles comes back and every time it gets more resistant to the abx. It's better to hit it really hard once than to try to keep treating it.

With a bun with a blocked nose, Bisolvon is brilliant. Buns who can't smell properly often go off their food, making them and their immune system weaker. Bisolvon can be given on food, in water or nebulised (we use the last method). Rabbit snot is thick and does not easily run out of the nose - the Bisolvon thins it and helps it to discharge.

Nebulising - something I would recommend to any snuffly bun and the thing we are convinced saved my life. We were managing the snuffles with abx but nebulising a solution of F10 antiseptic and Bisolvon helped me get better from it. We bought a £50 nebuliser from Amazon and set it up on the front of a wire-fronted carrier, insert one bun, throw a towel over the top and cook for 30 minutes twice a day, reducing to once a day as the bun improves. (I've actually heard of snuffly buns who ask to go in their nebulising box when they are feeling rotten.)

Do all you can to boost the bun's own immune system and give it a chance to fight the bacteria itself. We feed dried coneflower as this helps reduce stress. I also get a wide and varied mix of dried and fresh forage and weeds.

Pain relief - I never got Metacam as I have a delicate digestive system, and it would need careful thought before being given to a bun who is already dealing with oral abx. Some rabbit vets say Metacam does not upset the stomach of buns in the way it does other species, some vets think it does, some vets will prescribe it alongside a complimentary med such as ranitidine. You'd have to have a good chat with your vet about whether it was appropriate for your bun. (Humum always wanted me on it, the vet dug her heels in, and they have a very good working relationship together so Humum went with the vet on it). I'd imagine it would be desirable - if you have ever had a sinus infection you can imagine how rough your bun must feel at times.


I'll find some links in a minute for all the things we use, and come back and add anything else I think of here...  Thumbs Up 
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Re: Pasturella

Post by Sparky on Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:41 pm



Last edited by Sparky on Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Pasturella

Post by Father Jack on Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:16 pm

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Re: Pasturella

Post by paullp on Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:28 pm

Hmmm... I think Patch might have this as he was sneezy but only in his right nostril, and although there doesn't seem to be sneezes today, his right paw is a bit crusty. I will insist a long course of abc from the vet on Friday for sure
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Re: Pasturella

Post by cats444444 on Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:15 pm

Thankyou so much for the lovely welcome back guys Very Happy
Sparky and humum: thats invaluable info thankyou so much, I dont know where my email went Sad lost in the internet ether me thinks! I have an appointment with rabbit savvy vet tomorrow I will take a copy of the things you suggest and see if they will prescribe it, they are the best rabbit savvy vet in the area but as is always the way I this area still a bit behind the times I feel sometimes. The non savvy vet went to go see suggested steaming him with vicks, I was also told this by another vet for my ratties which is a very silly idea due to their fragile nasal passages im assuming the same is for bunnies and steaming with vicks would be bad too?
Thankyou again ill let you know how the vets goes in the morn im really hoping for a positive proactive approach from them xx x

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Re: Pasturella

Post by cats444444 on Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:16 pm

Paullp....these are istvans symptoms exactly sorry xxx

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Re: Pasturella

Post by cats444444 on Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:42 am

a quick update on us, went to bunny savvy vet this morning, she checked istvan over and listened to his chest. He was given an antibiotic injection and prescribed baytril for 10 days, we go back In a week to see if the antibs need extended and reccomended I get some probiotics (pro lapis I think they were called they are ordered anyway). I mentioned the bisolvon and she said I could get some but she didnt really recommend (im going to get a prescription next week and order some next week I didn't realise id need a script and she said they stopped doing it as you need to get a massive box anyway im sure if thats the case they can give me a script) anyway all in all I feel.more confident so I shall see. Sparky im going to ask for that antibiotic you recommended by name if the baytril doesnt work. What do you think sparkys humum does this sound ok? Also going to order some coneflower tonight.....also probiotics are they given during an antibiotic course or after? Thanks you lovely lot Smile xx

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Re: Pasturella

Post by c.bolduan on Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:32 pm

I doubt that this is helpful still would
I've to sher a thought.
Just read up on the topic as I wasn't aware and there is always something to learn about bunnies.
Comparing it with hoomins it seems to be equivilant with an MRSA infection.
Same characteristics are
Carried commonly without causing illness or symptoms unless immunsupressed or receptive for other reasons.
Stubborn and hard to treat with tendency of reaccuring.
Mainly attacking resperatory system.
Many factors suggest that MRSA develops in individuals that had prolonged or repeatingly taken Antibiotics.
Does this make sense in rabbit care too??

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Re: Pasturella

Post by cats444444 on Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:48 pm

Hi there Smile gosh id never have thought of that I completely agree I actually have a small amount of experience with mrsa as I used to be a carer and it also lives up the nose and pasteurella like mrsa can attack wounds. Definately makes sense to me. As far as istvans concerned he is a rescue so I dont know his history but he is likely only 1 year old and its probably unlikely hes had antibiotics before but i think it is possible to get mrsa without having taken antibiotic s though I know it is more prevalent in peole with an antibiotic history xx

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Re: Pasturella

Post by KatieB on Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:03 pm

Glad you have got a longer course of abx hunni.

The probiotics can be taken with abx and just help the tummy.


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Re: Pasturella

Post by Father Jack on Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:58 pm

Don't quote me on this but I think it's advisable to have a full 28 day course of ABX in pasturella cases. No doubt Sparky will correct me when she gets on Laughing
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Re: Pasturella

Post by Sparky on Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:17 pm

cats444444 wrote: a quick update on us, went to bunny savvy vet this morning,  she checked istvan over and listened to his chest. He was given an antibiotic injection and prescribed baytril for 10 days,  we go back In  a week to see if the antibs need extended and reccomended I get some probiotics (pro lapis I think they were called they are ordered anyway). I mentioned the bisolvon and she said I could get some but she didnt really recommend (im going to get a prescription next week and order some next week I didn't realise id need a script and she said they stopped doing it as you need to get a massive box anyway im sure if thats the case they can give me a script)  anyway all in all I feel.more confident so I shall see. Sparky im going to ask for that antibiotic you recommended by name if the baytril doesnt work. What do you think sparkys humum does this sound ok? Also going to order some coneflower tonight.....also probiotics are they given during an antibiotic  course or after? Thanks you lovely lot :)xx

I hate to tell you this but amongst the vast majority of snuffle bunnies I am aware of, Baytril is not very effective. A case in point, Jack developed a bit of a snuffle when we lost Mrs D and got Layla (Layla is enough to stress anybun Laughing). Two weeks of Baytril did nothing. After the first injection of Alamycin he was markedly better and I think he only had 3 or 4 injections in all to clear it completely.

I would be inclined to see how he is after the 10 days and if no better, ask for a different anti-b rather than extend the Baytril. There are other options than the Alamycin, it depends what your vet is comfortable with, and just because the Alamycin worked on the strain in the Wood Warren doesn't necessarily mean it would be the right one for Istvan. (I'd be happy to pass on our vet's contact details and give them permission to discuss our lot with your vet, if she would like.) When you do find one that works, insist on the extra 2 weeks after he seems fully symptom-free.

The probiotics are Bio Lapis. We've used this but nowadays we just use Pro C which you can buy at P&H. You can use either while he is on the abx and it should help his tummy not to get upset. (I get Pro-C every day because I like it and I am spoiled  Very Happy )

You can buy the Bisolvon by the sachet from Vet Uk. One sachet lasts ages. I'm surprised a rabbit-savvy vet said she would not recommend it  Hmmm it works wonders for clearing snot.
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Re: Pasturella

Post by cats444444 on Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:08 pm

Thankyou sparky and sparky humum Smile. I have also noted a marked improvement this morning after the one injection his sniffles sound different, sort of drier and he is less ruttley for the first time in months! Agreed on the baytril id read it wasnt the most effective we are going to see them again on Tuesday seven days into treatment if its not vastly improved by then if its ok ill share our emails and request the antibiotic be changed to the ones you mentioned I know it may be a different strain but it gives us a good line of treatment to start with, id also love your vets details and permission for my vet to talk to them that would be brill as im not sure how my *untrained* research will fly with them although so far they have been really good. Yes I too was confused by the bisolvon thing and I got the impression it was expensive for them to buy in bulk and then just hand out the odd sachet :/ ill get some anyhow as it makes sense to me.
If on the off chance the baytril works ill ask them to extend it to the full 28 days, the vet actually seemed reluctant to extend his antibiotics *if she could avoid it* which concerns me, the vets I go to is really good generally they are noted to be rabbit savvy and have a very good reputation but I think the problem may be that rabbit savvy in cumbria as opposed to other more up to date places may still be a bit behind the times. Thanks again peeps Smile
Lve robyn xx

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