We've got some options...

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Re: We've got some options...

Post by c.bolduan on Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:28 pm

Hun, I know this would be your last option, are you in a hurry to decide? If not explore all avenues. If you want I get in touch with furry friends. I got their contract here. It is clear no passing on, selling, or showcasing of the animal you have adopted . Just feel there must be others with the same approach. Which would mean he might be rehomed once. That's it.
Bless you both. This must be so hard. I wish there would be more I could do or say. Praying for you.

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Re: We've got some options...

Post by FluffSlave on Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:32 pm

Thank you Claudia Hugs

It is just exhausting. It's all I can think about. And the fact he has not happily bounced back as well is just making it harder Sad
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Re: We've got some options...

Post by FluffSlave on Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:53 pm

I've had an email back from Chloe - she is not able to take him. She also said in her email how Rescue Resources are not readily available to designate to one rabbit so frequently as would be needed in Mo's case. That's totally understandable and I would almost feel bad to hand him over to rescue with the cost implications involved to them and/or the potential owners.

I've been doing lots of reading about molar extraction and whilst I am still going to discuss this with my vet, I don't know how viable this will be for him - I don't know how he'd manage either the big procedure or the masses of human involvement that comes with the aftercare. Equally, I don't know how I would handle the bill or the costs of any complications following this. I am still going to ask my vet about it though.

I'm also starting to worry the repeated GA's might be taking more of an effect on him. He is still not 100% and it took him a lot longer this time to get 'going' again. It was only 6 weeks previously he was put under - I'm starting to question how kind it is.

I can see things ending with us having to say goodbye next time his teeth start to bother him. This will be utterly heart breaking but I feel it is the best choice for his/my situation and I will try to enjoy and spoil him as best I can over the coming weeks.

Mum has in fact come round and said that if/when Mo leaves us, we can look into getting Willow a friend. I think she understands how cruel it would be for her to lose Mojo and then become a single bun. This is something giving me some comfort at least.

It is such a shame and such terrible luck. I wish I were able to do more for him and believe me - I will try to exhaust any options (if there are any left) before making the call.

Thanks for all of your kind words and support guys Hugs
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Re: We've got some options...

Post by Sixer on Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:07 pm

I am afraid that I am very disappointed and even angry about the comment your mother has made about getting Willow a friend if you let Mo go. There is absolutely no guarantee that any rabbit or even Willow in the future is never going to need expensive veterinary care. If Mo is too much to afford then it would be foolish to take on another rabbit.
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Re: We've got some options...

Post by FluffSlave on Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:23 pm

Sixer wrote:I am afraid that I am very disappointed and even angry about the comment your mother has made about getting Willow a friend if you let Mo go. There is absolutely no guarantee that any rabbit or even Willow in the future is never going to need expensive veterinary care. If Mo is too much to afford then it would be foolish to take on another rabbit.

I am sorry that you feel that way Sixer.

There is a huge difference between me/us being able to afford medical care for the 'average' bunny and the medical bills involved in this situation. At this point, Mo is going to be costing us well over £1000 a year in dental burring alone. This does not include the repeated GA's and shaves which we also pay for.

Please don't get me wrong - we are not in a situation where we cannot afford two rabbits. We are well able to supply them with everything they need from food to annual vaccinations and health checks. If Mojo was needing dentals even every 12 weeks then we wouldn't be making this decision.

I know that there is absolutely no guarantee that we won't end up with another dental rabbit - but there are many things we can do to reduce the risks of ending up with one so severe as Mo. First of all, Mojo is of a breed type very prone to dental issues. Secondly, he is of a rescue background and therefore for the first seven months could have been fed a totally incorrect diet which wouldn't have helped his case. We are making this decision because we feel it is kindest for him. The repeated GA's and stays in the vets are clearly taking their toll on him.

Secondly, is it fair to leave Willow living a solitary life after two and half years in a bonded friendship? In our opinion, absolutely not. This would be the only decision to make from what you're proposing...

I am sorry if I come across snappy, but we are perfectly capable of caring for two rabbits and their day-to-day needs, as well as any other vets bills that come up. Willow has had vets bills of well over £100 on numerous occassions which we have been capable of paying. If any future buns did develop dental or other health issues, the likelihood is we could pay for these. Mojo's dental issues are very frequent and severe - it is the constant vet bills of such a large amount that are making things a struggle for us. Of course there are special circumstances (like Mo's) where the bills are very steep and at that point it is the owner's decision with whether to continue the treatments, but for most buns, in most situations, we would be able to provide the veterinary care they need. I would never take on another animal if I didn't believe this.

May I also add we would be very careful to pick a bun who is going to be less susceptible to dental issues in the future. This experience has been horrific for all involved, and to be made to feel as though I am irresponsible in any way is extremely disheartening for me. It is not nice to feel so unsupported from someone I thought was there for me - I didn't think you thought so little of me as to act so irresponsibly.
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Re: We've got some options...

Post by Sixer on Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:42 pm

I am sorry if I have upset you, but I do stand by what I have said in that no one can forsee future vets bills. I know this only too well, having Bobbin's and now Spring's recent bills to pay for.

However I have contacted a friend who runs a rabbit sanctuary - I can vouch that Mo would be given an excellent home if she is able to help. I know Mo is vaccinated and neutered - when is his next vac due, and also how old is he? If I can pass this info on then maybe, just maybe, a home may be offered. If you were able to make a donation along with Mo, I would be prepared to do so too. She doesn't live too far from you I think and has an excellent vet.

I hope between us we can give Mo a future.
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Re: We've got some options...

Post by FluffSlave on Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:45 pm

I understand that. And for most future vets bills - even if they were extremely large - we would be able to tackle them as once off situations/less frequent dentals etc. It is the huge cost so frequently that we are unable to manage.

Thank you very much for contacting your friend. Mo is 3 and a half and I can't remember off the top of my head, but I think their vaccs are due in November. I can double check for you. I would love to at least chat to your friend, however I do need to consider the ethical implications here as, like I said, he is bouncing back less and less well each time. He is still not 100% and his dental was on Wednesday morning.

I hope so too Hugs
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Re: We've got some options...

Post by FluffSlave on Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:48 pm

Sixer wrote:I am sorry if I have upset you, but I do stand by what I have said in that no one can forsee future vets bills. I know this only too well, having Bobbin's and now Spring's recent bills to pay for.

However I have contacted a friend who runs a rabbit sanctuary - I can vouch that Mo would be given an excellent home if she is able to help. I know Mo is vaccinated and neutered - when is his next vac due, and also how old is he? If I can pass this info on then maybe, just maybe, a home may be offered. If you were able to make a donation along with Mo, I would be prepared to do so too. She doesn't live too far from you I think and has an excellent vet.

I hope between us we can give Mo a future.

Sorry if I've misunderstood you... are you talking about offering a home to Mojo personally?

Anyone who could offer my little man the future he deserves would of course receive a donation from myself. I would be eternally grateful if things did not have to end so soon for him.
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Re: We've got some options...

Post by Sixer on Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:52 pm

No, I meant I would be prepared to give my friend a donation too.

I wish I could offer Mo a home, but as I am now at 4 bunnies Sad I would prefer to stay that way
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Re: We've got some options...

Post by FluffSlave on Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:55 pm

That's extremely generous of you. If your friend would like my contact details I can send them to you via a PM.

I understand Hugs
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Re: We've got some options...

Post by Sixer on Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:00 pm

Please, yes if you would do that and I will pass them onto Theo. I haven't her number with me whilst I am away but I can reach her through Facebook.
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Re: We've got some options...

Post by FluffSlave on Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:07 pm

Have sent you them in a PM. Thanks xx
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Re: We've got some options...

Post by KatieB on Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:02 pm

If you are talking about the Theo I think you are Mr Mo would have a completely amazing home, and its one of the only two in the world, actually that I would ever consider taking care of mine.

I can see where you are coming from with your thinking, that you think you might be doing the right thing for mo my putting him down because you worry about how he recovers from dentals and that he might not find the right home. I know that you must be devastated at the thought of doing this. But I can see another point of view with this too.

Now.... Id like you to have a think about what I'm going to say here and mull it over.... and not assume I'm having a go at you because I'm really not.

Firstly if we look at Mo's not recovering as quickly.
So I have two severely dental buns, who both need dentals every 6-8 weeks and have done for a long time (daisy 6 years and charlie 3 years) I have to say that there only comes a problem with their recovery if the teeth were causing a problem to the degree that they had already slowed the eating. If I whip them in before its an issue they are in and out of the GA without issue. So I don't think its the dental itself that is causing the issue. So in all likelihood, if the new owner could get him done more routinely he would be absolutely fine, with multiple dentals. Both of mine are cool with it.
Still on the subject of the GA's, and whether this is causing a problem in itself for mo, I am wondering if it is the type of GA too - I have sensed in the past a reluctance from your vet to try other (perhaps more modern GA's) the type he is using could be the reason, and not cos mo isn't up to it. Again, I'm not having a go - what I'm saying is that you shouldn't be assuming that because he has struggled to recover now, that he will continue to do so.

I can also see why some members might be upset with (and I do know its not as simple as this) the fact that you would have Mo put to sleep because his dentals are costly and then say that you would get another bun. Now as you know - I have three buns. Three out of three have serious, long term, expensive health issues. 3 out of 3. Daisy has always had the right diet from a baby, always had everything a bun needs, and he still needs dentals. Charlie and Annie were vet checked before we agreed to take them... both got a clean bill of health, and here we are - vet bills totalled £9000 for them all last year. Im not saying this because i think that you should magic up the cash for mo, I'm saying that you just cannot guarantee there won't be an issue. Who is to say that this new bun wouldn't develop problems and need expensive care? There is only so much you can do to check/prevent it.

I can completely see your point for Willow, it would be awful for her to be alone after being with Mo, and I certainly wouldn't want to see C or A alone, but what would you say to someone who said the following - My rabbit is too expensive, so I'm having it put down and getting a less expensive one. What if this one also becomes expensive in a year or two years? What then?

I really hope that you will use the next 6 weeks to find an alternative to putting Mo to sleep, when there may be other options out there. I am someone who can also not imagine anyone else taking care of my bunnies as well as I can, and I may also feel that Id be doing them a favour by not taking the risk, but why not fight for every single other available option first?

I hope that Theo can help him, it would be a wonderful home. If its the lady I'm thinking of she specialises in taking poorly/disabled/old bunnies. She doesn't re-home them, she keeps them. Who knows, mo may even be re-bonded and given the outside home that he would love.

I think that people here are supporting you, even if you feel they are not. I know that everyone here cares for you very much, you have been part of our lives for a long time now. I think that they can understand how heartbreaking it must be not to be able to offer what you need/want for your bun. What I think we are struggling with is the determination that he is better off dead, when we all want to help you fight for his life. If it turns out we can't... then we can't.... but we should all be trying shouldn't we?

Sending you a hug, because you are in a horrible situation and you must be feeling very alone.


Katie, Daisy B, Charlie & Annabelle x
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Re: We've got some options...

Post by FluffSlave on Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:24 pm

Thanks Katie Hugs

I see what you are saying there and they are all great points. However, I do feel that the chances of a bunny becoming as expensive as Mojo are low. Willow has had numerous health issues and troubles throughout her life, but she's never run up the bills in quite the same way as he has and she'll be five next year.

So, this leaves me with the question of what do I do? If it's wrong to take on another rabbit (which I personally don't feel in my circumstances it would be), then what am I supposed to do with Willow? In addition, in a couple of years time I will be a qualified teacher and my financial situation will be very different to that of my situation now as a Uni student working part-time. If I had the money to spend on Mo I would - that is what kills me. I just don't have THAT much money. However, that's not to say that if a bun I had needed 12 weekly dentals or the occassional one or two big vets bills paying that I couldn't manage, because I could.

I would agree with your theory on the GA but in the past he has always come round very quickly. I am also taking into consideration it was the least bunny savvy vet that performed the dental that day (not through my choice) and therefore things might not have gone exactly the same as normal - however, he needed the dental and couldn't really wait.

Please don't ever feel that I am 'determined' to have him PTS. I am anything but, and of course I would like to explore other avenues. But, there are limits to things that actually become options because of 1) finances, 2) my lack of ability to get him to and fro places and 3) my interest for what is best for him and ensuring that if he does go elsewhere, it is a fantastic home only and he will be loved, happy and well cared for for the rest of his life. Imagine living with not knowing if that was the case. If he ever ended up in a bad home or unfavourable circumstances I couldn't live with myself.

I also need to consider the ethics of splitting them and sending Mo to a new home. This would be a scary, stressful transition for him all without Willow by his side and wondering where she's gone. Equally, for Willow it would be a confusing time. If we do end up having Mo PTS, Willow will get to have some 'time' with him before we bury him. I've read this can be very beneficial for the remaining bun in helping them to process what has happened and move on with a new bond. This couldn't happen if he just went elsewhere...

I am open to all ideas and sorry if I don't come across that way. But what might be possible for you guys and your buns isn't necessarily an option for me and mine.

ETA: I am very keen to chat to Theo and find out more. If any of you guys are recommending her that instantly warms me to the idea.
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Re: We've got some options...

Post by Thumper2001 on Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:44 pm

I remember Theo Smile Mojo would be in safe hands there for sure Smile

Good shout, Sixer Very Happy
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Re: We've got some options...

Post by Thumper2001 on Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:51 pm

Sorry, I just want to add to Katie's point about bunny problems taking you by surprise.

Thumper. Had her nearly 11 years. Little monkey NEVER ate hay. Had her teeth burred twice in her entire life. First time because she was knocked out to be spayed and it would have been foolish not to check them. Second time many, many years later. And afterwards the vet said "her teeth weren't all that bad" (Mad)

Then we have Molly. Fine for 3 years and then 2 dentals in 4 months. Nobody, and I mean nobody, thought we'd have this problem with either Molly or Junior. If I remember correctly, both Cheryl and Sparky said at the time they were surprised. Apologies if I am misquoting anyone here!

You can be as selective as you like but unfortunately there's just no telling Sad
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Re: We've got some options...

Post by FluffSlave on Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:31 pm

I know - it's so frustrating Sad

I am still toying with the idea of conscious dentals. They sound awful and I'm really not warming to the idea very much from reading everyone's opinions, but on the flip-side, if Chloe from Fat Fluffs - a reputable rescue - regularly uses and advocates for them, and it is our only option between keeping him and either letting him go somewhere else or PTS (both of which would kill me), maybe it is worth a shot. I may get back in touch with Chloe and see if she can tell me about the procedure in more detail. Rebecca did say for some bunnies she will use a light sedative, so I could request this. If it's way too traumatic and he hates every minute, then at least I can rule it out and say I tried. But if it works, it could mean he is able to stay with me and Willow...

Thoughts guys? Worth a shot or just too risky?
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Re: We've got some options...

Post by cheryl'n'bruce'flo on Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:06 pm

Bruce just has a light sedative and it works well for him. He is bright and happy when he comes home.

With regards to the separation issue - how is Willow's health at the moment?


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Re: We've got some options...

Post by FluffSlave on Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:22 pm

Ooh, that's interesting Cheryl. I wonder if my current vets could possibly do him with just a light sedative. I will definitely enquire about that tomorrow when I chat with my vet.

Willow's health is great at the moment. She's maintaining a good, healthy weight and hasn't shown any signs of incontinence for a long time now. She seems to be thriving - which is one reason I would hate to cause any disruption when she is doing so well...
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Re: We've got some options...

Post by FluffSlave on Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:15 am

I've been chatting with Theo and she also uses and recommends conscious dentals. That's two trusted sources now, maybe we should give this a go...
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Re: We've got some options...

Post by FluffSlave on Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:20 am

Theo uses the same vet I would be using and is singing her praises! I could cry with happiness right now guys - we may have found a solution!
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Re: We've got some options...

Post by Sixer on Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:02 am

Oh I am so pleased, I have everything crossed that there is a way forward.

I maybe should have mentioned earlier that my vets carry out dentals with only very light anaesthesia too.
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Re: We've got some options...

Post by jolovesbunnies on Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:06 pm

It sounds as if there is an end in sight love, making decisions like this are always so hard. †Please keep us posted. Hugs

Hugs
JO xx

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Re: We've got some options...

Post by c.bolduan on Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:00 am

Anything goes. You won't know unless you try and maybe this is for him. Keep us updated!

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