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Metaclop and Zantac FURTHER UPDATE 2nd Oct

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Jay
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Metaclop and Zantac FURTHER UPDATE 2nd Oct Empty Metaclop and Zantac FURTHER UPDATE 2nd Oct

Post by Sixer Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:00 pm

Nia had a thankfully minor case of stasis yesterday.

The out-of-hours vet practice which I don't normally use, told me they can no longer obtain metaclop... (still can't spell it) and to use liquid Zantac instead. So two questions

1. Is metaclop..... no longer available to all vet practice's?
2. Does Zantac really have the same effect?

I would be grateful if those of you who are on very good terms with bunny savvy vets could ask their opinions.

Thank you,
Vanessa


Last edited by Sixer on Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:52 am; edited 3 times in total
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Post by Jay Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:27 pm

I'm speaking to John tomorrow, I'll ask Smile

Hope Nia's ok Hugs
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Post by Catsknickers Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:54 pm

~I can't answer your question hun, but vibes for the Noo x
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Post by Happy Hoppers Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:41 pm

I don't think Zantac (Tagamet) has the same effect on Gastric emptying that Metaclopromide does, it's ususally used to prevent ulceration during stasis. I'm trying to remember if I heard that it was an appetite stimulant too but I will have to look it up. I now Vit. B12 can be used to stimulate the appetite in a stasis bun.

Also, AFAIK, Metaclopromide is still available. scratch
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Post by SarahP Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:48 pm

Zantac does work to stimulate the gut as I understand it, but nowhere near to the same effect as Metoclopramide.

edit: plus I'm not sure which part of the gut etc. I'm thinking along the lines that Prepulsid, back in the days when it was available, used to stimulate a different part to the gut to Metoclopramide.
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Post by Sixer Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:46 pm

Luckily I had some liquid metaclop in so I dosed Noo with that rather than Zantac. The vet did make mention of keeping her on Zantac long term. After some investigation I have found that Zantac does help gut motility but of the lower end of the intestine. Metaclop works on the upper. Like you Sooz I thought it's primary use was in ulcer prevention.

I do have some liquid Zantac which was prescribed for our aged cat. She soon rejected it pale in spectacular frothy fashion.

Little Noo bless her now has her love of food back Very Happy

And Jay, if you could manage to ask John's opinion that would be fantastic Very Happy
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Post by Snowy Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:16 am

Metaclopromide is still available and your vet should be able to prescribe it for you, it's prepulsid that they can no longer get and that is a life saver, I get a regular supply of it and always keep it in the house
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Post by SarahP Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:28 am

Sixer wrote:After some investigation I have found that Zantac does help gut motility but of the lower end of the intestine.

Ah yes, I remember my old vet saying now that it was a fair replacement for Prepulsid, so that would make sense that it works on the same area of the gut. I don't think it's anywhere near so powerful though.
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Post by Jay Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:41 pm

I just spoke to John, he said there's no problem getting Metaclop, and no plans to remove it from use, so that's a bit strange?

He doesn't use Zantac as a gut stimulant, but said that it's Frances Bunny Brown that promotes it works for lower gut, but it's not as effetive as Prepulsid did. He's not a user of Zantac for anything much, even prolonged metatcam use, as he's only seen 1 bun with ulcers due to Metacam. I think he has a minimal medication approach.

He said he normally goes with pain relief as primary medicine and metaclop. He did mention another medicine that you have to have a license for, but I didn't get the name.
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Post by Sixer Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:52 pm

Thank you for asking Jay Very Happy

I really couldn't imagine that Metaclop had been discontinued so I am still puzzled as to the vet's comment. I will ask Kayj if she has been told this as she uses that practice on a regular basis.

As to the Zantac, I am really dubious as to using that long term. I have learnt in my researching that a rabbit's stomach is very acidic, much more so than a human's. I wonder if it would not be detrimental to reduce the acidity level by using Zantac on a long term basis to potentially prevent stasis.

Anybody have thoughts on this, it is all very confusing.
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Post by Happy Hoppers Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:09 pm

Your right, when baby rabbits become weaned their stomachs turn from alkali to acidic and this is often the period whereby they become prone to enterotoxeamia amongst other things. I know of a cottontail rehabilitator who recommends giving a little orange when the cottontail kits reach this age to help with the transfer.

I used Tagamet long-term on Caspian (he didn't like Zantac) and although it didn't make him any worse I'm not convinced it made a huge difference either. The reasoning behind us using it however was that due to his frequent bouts of stasis whereby his somach would either bloat or empty the stomach acid would have little to work on and could, if terribly acidic, start to damage the lining of the GI tract causing more inflammation and compounding problems. I think this is another reason it is often used to treat stasis, infact I had never heard of its use as a stimulant before now.
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Post by Sixer Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:49 am

That is interesting re baby bunnies, Sooz.

Why do bunnies have to be so complicated and fragile Sad
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Post by SarahP Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:32 pm

I used Zantac long-term on both of my two buns. I think the reason it was prescribed was for its action on the gut, but I was pleased anyway, since they were on long-term Metacam too.
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Post by Sixer Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:05 am

Have just been to my normal vets this morning and was told it is the Metaclopramide syrup, known as Maxolon which has been discontinued. Didn't ask whether this is just for animal use or humans too and to the reason.
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Post by Sixer Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:56 am

Have spoken to KayJ this morning and who uses the vet practice who recommended Zantac over Metaclop.

She tells me that current thinking is that Zantac is more effective than Metaclop scratch

Have any other bunny savvy vets heard of this?
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Post by SarahP Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:14 am

I can only think that it's because of the area of the gut it works on.
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Post by Jay Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:34 am

I'll see if i can get an answer from Frances Bunny Brown, through Anne, who I'm hoping to see in a bit Smile

ETA, I popped round and saw anne's hubby, she wasn't in, but I've left a note for her to ask Frances wassit all about -I'll let you know as soon as I hear anything Smile
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Post by Jay Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:38 pm

Vanessa, I spoke to Anne this morning, she hasn't been able to get in touch with FHB, but is still trying, I haven't forgotten it x
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Post by Jay Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:47 am

Frances isn't practising at the mo, she's off sick, has been for a while, so that's why no response. Sorry for the delay Vanessa.
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Post by Sixer Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:06 pm

Thanks for trying Jay Smile No there is no great rush for an answer but it would interesting to hear FHB's opinion.

I hope she is soon better.
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