I'd love some bonding advice please....

I really need the help of bunny people!! I bought McGregor at Easter from a shop in Salisbury, he was about 8 weeks old and the only bunny in his pen. (I had originally gone to have a rehome rabbit but he wasn't suitable for me...long story) The man in the shop told me that McGregor would need to live alone. Once McGregor had been neutered, I decided to look for a friend for him and the RSPCA suggested a bun who had been born there called Nivens. His brother had been recently rehomed and Nivens' was a similar age to McGregor, had been spayed and seemed to be missing his brother. Hurray I thought!!
Both my boys have their own hutch with attached runs and McGregor was beside himself to see another bun. After 2 weeks of seeing eachother I felt brave enough for them to meet in my ensuite....I was armed with carrots, cabbage, gardening gloves and a water spray. I'd read up and watched you tube and felt as confident as possible for the situation. It was awful; McGregor mounted Nivens (ok I thought...this is normal), after a bit I moved him off, then Nivens launched at McGregor and fur flew. I separated them 3 times and then Nivens hid a great deal of stamping and McGregor came to sit with me, but thankfully took the hint. On day 2, they were ok for about 5 mins and then Nivens started to fight again. I decided to slow it down and try a chatting wall for them. I spent more time with Nivens because he didn't know me as well and I thought it would make him more secure. Both boys now have runaround pipes leading to another run with a chatting wall. I was advised to try them in the garden so they could avoid eachother if needed, this worked for 5 times and then they had a huge fight and were separated several times and both drew blood. They seem happy with their chatting wall, but are unable to manage when allowed together. So my question is: is this ever going to work and what can I do to help?

This probably isn't what you want to hear, but:

In our experience, it is *really* difficult to bond boys, to the extent that I would never try it again. We have boys who are siblings who have known each other all their lives, went in as a group to be neutered so were never apart and were neutered as young as possible so they didn't get a chance to be very hormonal.

At that time we had a group of four boys and five girls.

The boys still squabbled (although never fought horribly) and at least one of the boys was always off on his own - two in particular seemed to get bullied non-stop. We've had to split them into pairs, except for Smudge who lives with three girls and can't quite believe his luck

I *have* heard of people who have bonded boys who live perfectly happily together. I've also heard of people who have had boys who were bonded for a long time then had an almighty fight with horrible injuries.

Apparently boys are more likely to get on together if there are no females around (which might have been the cause of the troubles we experienced) but that doesn't mean just in your garden but within smelling range for a rabbit - quite a distance.

If I was in your situation and in a position to do so, I'd seriously consider adopting a couple of females from a rescue and letting them have a wife-bun each. Of course, that depends on whether you have the time, space, finances and commitment to be owned by four rabbits.....

I do know of people who have bonded boys - but it was tricksy.

The first thing is to ensure there is neutral territory - the bath is perfect - although don't let them claim an end of their own. Be ready to separate them.

Try cross scenting first too.

Hopefully Nickie - who bonded her boys will be along soon.

I'm with Sparky on this one, I'm very surprised Nivens was suggested to you as a companion for McGregor, you would have been better to have been offered a spayed female. Is there some other neutral territory you can use, indoors perhaps? Make a make shift pen and devide it in two and put them in there for a few days, then relocate to another neutral territory in another room for the bonding. Provide plenty of treats for distraction, and see how they get on. If they accept each other, that can be their new home for a short while, while you scrub their existing homes to make them neutral too.

With your two set ups and runaround tunnels, you could make a super impressive set up for them!

Keep us posted and we will keep trying to help.


You could try the ride in the car trick, but if they start a fight in the carrier it could be awful for you and them so maybe give that a miss.

I did try swapping them in eachothers bedding for a couple of weeks...they are quite good friends with the security of their chatting wall. They have good nose to nose contact, parallel wash, have been seen washing eachother through the mesh and show off and binky at eachother. McGregor spends a lot of his time there waiting for Nivens who prefers it on his terms and comes over for half an hour or so at a time. When they fight, it seems that Nivens starts it and McGregor can't let it go......I did contact the RSPCA about my dilema and they said I could swap Nivens if I wanted to, but we love him now and he has such a lovely life here in my family with more space than the RSPCA require and he's allowed in the garden whenever we're in. I just don't think I'm ready for the jump to getting another 2 buns yet.....and my husband would hit the roof! The RSPCA told me that i'd tried more than most people to make it work and they believed the boys would be ok living next to eachother and having the chatting wall. But as I'm very new to this, I don't know who to trust as I feel a bit duped by the pet shop and the RSPA alike!

I don't honk it's time o give p just yet Hun - grooming through the wire is fantastic!

I am also surprised that Nivens was advised to be a good match. The impression I have got is that even if you get them bonded be prepared for the bond to horribly wrong. Even after long settled periods. If I were you I would be going back to your RSPCA and saying you gave me bad advice and (if you can bear it) ask them to take Nivens back and ask them to find you a female for Mcgregor. I would also be expecting them to not charge you again as this really was their bad advice. If you have fallen for Nivens in a big way then I would be urging you to consider females for both boys. People do manage to bond boys but I know of what seem to be settled bonds ending in tragedy and bloodshed.

I did manage to bond two boys but the context was very different.

I had a male female bond where the female died and the male was left lonely. I also had a single male who lived alone and who I had previously tried to introduce to the pair to form a trio, but it never worked out - because there was a female which just sparked trouble as Sparky says.

The bond between the male was really easy although the single male was a very submissive rabbit and the other male was a control freak (small bunny syndrome). However, saying that, the bond never seemed as strong as with the female male bond and it was purely because Felix, the single bun was so very submissive that it worked.

You are dealing with a very different kettle of fish - two young, still hormonal, non-related males. The person from the RSPCA who advised you to take Niven perhaps doesn't know very much about rabbits.

Your choices are:

Leave the boys side by side and let them have a good few months to get used to each other before you try to bond them again. This will let their hormones die off, let them get used to each other (you are getting good signs with the grooming and nose rubbing) and keep up their building a bit of a relationship, then try the bond again.

Take Niven back and replace him with a female

Accept they will always live apart.

If you do try to bond them in the future. You need to do it in a neutral area that no bun has ever been in. A bathroom is a good place because it is small and if it is tiled or has lino, the floor is slippery and that makes the buns a bit more cautious.

I might keep them separate for a couple more months with the chatting wall and then try again. I don't think I can let Nivens go......but I'm a bit "cross" that the RSPCA have really messed up when I trusted them to be giving me the right advice, especially as at the time I did question the boy/boy mix. One of our neighbours does have an un neutered lady and she lives probably 10 meters away from my boys.....could this be impacting on their relationship?

We have never had any luck bonding males there has always been fights and you have to be so careful as males will sometimes fight to kill, when they fight they will go for each other's private parts and it has been known for one male to do a lot of damage to the other male in that area. We had trouble with 2 males that were Brothers that we bonded many years ago, they did get on but as they got older they started to fight and the fight's would get worse each time and then after one big fight where they were in a ball fighting I had to try and part them and I had to rush one of them to the vet's as the other had bitten him on his private parts.

I would never bond 2 males again.

I get that ball fighting thing; that's what happened with mine the last time they were in the garden together and I had to climb under the trampoline to separate them. Luckily, they were both moulting so most of the fur was loose anyway. Maybe i'll re think this and maybe try girls at some point. Is there an age that if you're going to bond it needs to be done by? Nightmare......

That kind of fighting when they are locked on, is serious stuff and they can really injure each other when they do it.

With normal bonding, there can be an element of chasing and nipping which looks unpleasant but isn't really nasty. It can be just about deciding who is the top bun and often it is sorted out quickly and then they go about their business in a lot more mellow way.

Although I did have success with my boys, I would always be very wary about them and alert for it breaking down.

cerci wrote:I get that ball fighting thing; that's what happened with mine the last time they were in the garden together

One of the things with bonds is not to allow too much space too soon - this might have been the case if they had the run of the garden.

I think that there is always going to be a risk with these guys that they might fall out. You might be able to force them to live together and tolerate each other but I'm not convinced it would ever be a proper bond.

How much space do they each have at the moment? Hutch size, run and shared run?

They each have a hutch that's 2x4 with a run attached that's about 4ft squared, then McGregor has an 8ft pipe to half of another 4ft squared run and Nivens has a 4ft bridge pipe to the same run. They have a mesh chatting wall dividing this run. they also have separate access to a big garden when I'm home.