Esme's not well, diagnosis/possible cause of pain

She's just sitting (well the hunch thing) in one position, she hasn't shown any interest in her tea, which has been there an hour. She's refused grass and dried plantain and a fenugreek crunchie. She's only good up when I've lifted her to look at her. ... I've lifted her relatively easily.

She last had a stasis episode in mid-February. The vets I'm registered with weren't on call and the OOH vet, when I said she was hyperventilating, asked if she was spayed No, she wasn't giving birth - like I said, she has belly ache He pretty much said if she's still alive in the morning take her to your usual vet.

Anyhow, don't have to go through that tonight as H-B's on call. If she does go it will be my 4th stasis admission in 3 weeks.

I'll ring them at 9.30 if she doesn't improve. She has just got up and gone to the litter tray where she eventually lay down and then got off having not done anything.

Oh gosh
Please eat Esme!

At least H-B is there, that's the only consolation I suppose. Awful that the OOH vet said that!

Sending vibes for Esme and hugs for you xx

Dotdot wrote:Oh gosh
Please eat Esme!

At least H-B is there, that's the only consolation I suppose. Awful that the OOH vet said that!

Sending vibes for Esme and hugs for you xx

Thanks. I'm probably taking the previous vet's comments out of context a bit but he clearly had no intention of getting out of his bed (midnight). I then had to ring a local vet at 2.00 am as Esme was hyperventilating really badly by then and clearly needed a painkiller or something to calm her down.

Oh no, you're really going through it at the moment aren't you?

What veg do you feed? Us lot and several of the Tuckerbunnies had a spate of problems earlier in the year and gave up on spring greens in the end - we now have a 'veg' diet that is very heavily herbs rather than veggies, and we've had no problems since

Lots of vibes for Esme

Sparky wrote:Oh no, you're really going through it at the moment aren't you?

What veg do you feed? Us lot and several of the Tuckerbunnies had a spate of problems earlier in the year and gave up on spring greens in the end - we now have a 'veg' diet that is very heavily herbs rather than veggies, and we've had no problems since

Lots of vibes for Esme

Spring greens is the main veg they get. We have phases of a few weeks of belly aches and then a good run of none. She's not had any spring greens since 10.00 am though, I'm not sure about how fast these things can be digested

She's now done some digging in litter tray and laid there panting.

Rung vets. Just spoke to Mr H-B. Setting off in a few mins.

Vibes for Esme.

Poor Esme, and poor you! You're really going through it. Hope she makes a speedy recovery, sending lots of vibes her way.

Thank you for the vibes.

Esme's blood glucose reading was 15.5. I'd only been aware of her being unwell for a couple of hours (she was okay 3 hours earlier) so if it was anything serious then it had been caught early. Nigel H-B said that Esme's stomach didn't feel big and x-rays confirmed that there was no obvious indication of blockage. Interestingly her guts were empty so it pretty much confirms that the morning's spring greens had been and gone, the contents of her stomach (I'm assuming) would be the hay she had eaten during the afternoon. There were some gas shadows to observe but nothing he felt was too suspicious. There was an area of gas in the stomach that *could* be indicative of duodenal 'something or other' that I didn't take in, but he felt it unlikely as she would be in a lot more pain than she was if that was the case.

He therefore said he didn't believe there was anything of particular concern, it certainly didn't at that stage look surgical but they would give her Tramadol, Domperidone etc and re-do the blood glucose reading again during the night until they were happy with it.... he was taking her home - so Esme's spending the night at Frances H-B's house That's reassuring then.

Vibes and prayers are with you and Esme!



I Think Commander Bun Spock has a great idea!

Big Ears wrote:

Sparky wrote:Oh no, you're really going through it at the moment aren't you?

What veg do you feed? Us lot and several of the Tuckerbunnies had a spate of problems earlier in the year and gave up on spring greens in the end - we now have a 'veg' diet that is very heavily herbs rather than veggies, and we've had no problems since

Lots of vibes for Esme

Spring greens is the main veg they get. We have phases of a few weeks of belly aches and then a good run of none. She's not had any spring greens since 10.00 am though, I'm not sure about how fast these things can be digested

She's now done some digging in litter tray and laid there panting.

Rung vets. Just spoke to Mr H-B. Setting off in a few mins.

We give hardly any Spring Greens now to our buns as they were having tummy aches, dirty bottoms and going in to Stasis and I am sure it's something they spray the cabbage with to keep it freasher longer, our vet said she was seeing a lot more rabbit's with tummy problems and they were all on Spring Greens.
We now give our buns more fresh herbs and we haven't had half the problems we did have.
I have thought this about the Spring greens for a long time. Tesco ones anyway.

Home Esme will be ok

Sending her lots of Vibes xxxxxxxx

I have also taken my two off Spring Greens after Jeeves' little episodes back in May. Mine now have a range of herbs and the odd bit of carrot.

I hope Esme is ok this morning x

Any news this morning? She is in the very best hands. Thinking of you both xxx

Thanks all.

Katieb wrote:Any news this morning? She is in the very best hands. Thinking of you both xxx

I had to ring at 8.00 am and he said she hadn't eaten and was obviously not happy (difficult to tell whether still in pain or afronted at being moved to an unfamiliar place etc). She'd also been thumping Ungrateful madam!

So still same as last night - they are not concerned about it being anything serious but she needs to be made to eat again. She was being taken back to the surgery for the necessary and I can ring later for a further update


Re: the greens. I have cut the amount they get back to less than half of previous years and they get half a leaf for breakfast and half a leaf at supper time. They get fresh forage at teatime if the season/weather allows. It's been raspberry leaves very often these past few weeks. Artie gets grass more often because of his low calcium diet. *If* I do take them off spring greens, I'm at a loss as the volume of greens they get couldn't be replaced with herbs - I just couldn't afford it. I supposed I could start growing some. I experimented with herbs last year when Artie had his kidney removed but loads of them seem to be high in calcium. I wasted quite a lot of money on herbs as they pretty much all turned down corriander, basil, mint, parsley. (Corriander and parsley being high in calcium anyway ) They have had less stasis episodes this year compared to previous two years... until July which was a washout. I did forage long grass and dandelions at the roadside a few months back but got back out of the habit as I'm too wary of contamination. Growing 'stuff' could really be the answer. I have about 10kg of wheatgrass seeds that I've not done anything with (don't know the calcium content of the wheatgrass either!) I think I need to go shopping on Rabbit Nutrition and Galen's Garden type sites and grow their dinner!

I had had a thought in the last few days that the ones that had stasis in July were all the 'initial E' bunnies (Elijah, Erin, Eloise) the only 'E' who hadn't was Esme and she's a regular for bellyache.... barely got the thought in and out of my head and she goes down with stasis

Sending lots of vibes to Esme

Sending lots of vibes for the little one

I'd cut the spring greens out. If it something they spray them with (as we and Maysie suspect) then it could be in her system long after the actual spring greens have passed out.

Herbs are cheaper than vet bills and we don't get massive amounts of anything - Humum reckons about £2 worth a day between 12 buns. She often buys the little pots at 2 for £2, uses the ready leaves then plants the rootball on in troughs and containers - eventually they recover and you can get a good crop from them again and again. Rocket grows easily like this too. Mint is another - you have trouble stopping it from growing - and it's good for digestion. I hate it but Jack loves it.

There is a school of thought that if you give buns access to various natural foods, they eat the ones they need. Humum is going to try sowing lots of herb seeds amongst the grass in the new run, and up against the edges just outside them so the buns can choose which bits to eat and when.

There's another school of thought that buns don't really 'need' veggies at all, but Humum likes us to have something to make sure we have a chance to get micro amounts of vitamins and minerals. Plus they are nommy

oh dear just seen this mega vibes to esme hope she noms up soon
you are not getting a break at the mo poor you

Sparky wrote:I'd cut the spring greens out. If it something they spray them with (as we and Maysie suspect) then it could be in her system long after the actual spring greens have passed out.

Herbs are cheaper than vet bills and we don't get massive amounts of anything - Humum reckons about £2 worth a day between 12 buns. She often buys the little pots at 2 for £2, uses the ready leaves then plants the rootball on in troughs and containers - eventually they recover and you can get a good crop from them again and again. Rocket grows easily like this too. Mint is another - you have trouble stopping it from growing - and it's good for digestion. I hate it but Jack loves it.

There is a school of thought that if you give buns access to various natural foods, they eat the ones they need. Humum is going to try sowing lots of herb seeds amongst the grass in the new run, and up against the edges just outside them so the buns can choose which bits to eat and when.

There's another school of thought that buns don't really 'need' veggies at all, but Humum likes us to have something to make sure we have a chance to get micro amounts of vitamins and minerals. Plus they are nommy

I definitely need to look at growing noms. Looking at the maths (not that it's that straightforward of course as I want to avoid them having stasis episodes) changing from greens to herbs, assuming between 10 rabbits I was buying £2 of herbs a day - I'd need to find another £400 a year *gulp*. I don't actually pay the vet bills P@H and Pet Plan get that little treat - I just get the excess so at £55/£65 per year per bun (it won't apply to all in a 12 month period) would still be less than £400. .. though I suppose if loss of earnings and petrol came into the equation as well......

Like I said though I experiemented with herbs and the fussy lot just didn't like them They only get a smidgen of pellets too. They get hay from bales and more expensive timothy hay which they all go mad for. I've loads of roses, I've offered the leaves and they don't like Maybe growing spring greens is the answer but I think molluscs and catapillars would eat them before the bunnies got chance. We've even got loads of sticky weed but will the eat it??? NO!

Edit to add: I've just been in ebay and bought some spring green seeds - now is the time for sowing them apparently so should be able to get them going soon. I shall sow the wheatgrass too. .... it's going to be like "The Good Life" round here .... I'll be saving the bunny poo to make the cabbages grow next ....

I have just sown a load of new herbs - chervil, rocket, basil (that's more hopeful than realistic with the year we're having as Basil needs warmth). I have also just sown some chard. You have to be a bit careful with the amount of chard you feed but it is a brilliant veg for feeding a little and quite often as you just pick the outside leaves of the plant an it will keep growing.

Plants like red cabbage and chard are also pretty enough to grow in amongst your flowers.

Some herbs can be an acquired taste - we quite often look at Humum like she is trying to poison us when she introduces something new but a few days later are sulking if we don't get any

This especially seems to apply to strong-smelling things like mint and basil. Me and Gizzy don't like mint and if she forgets and puts some in our veg, ten minutes later it's the only thing left. But an hour later it's gone, so we even eat that in the end.

None of us are keen on fresh rose leaves (although given half a chance we'll happily eat them off the plant ) but Humum dries them and then we like them - in fact we eat the stalk and flowers too like that.

Look into companion planting for spring greens - I know with carrots you plant onions amongst them and that is supposed to deter carrot-flies. I'm not sure if there might be something similar to help protect cabbagey-type plants.

How is she now?

I strongly suspect the grocer sprays them with a sulfite based solution to
prolong their shelf life. Many humans react poorly to the sulfites. They
give me ferocious migraines. Some people have gastrointestinal difficulties.
When I have a bad migraine I get nauseated. I know we are not rabbits,
but perhaps she has a headache and is nauseated from a sulfite agent.

I hope sweet Esme is well soon.

Thanks guys, there's some really good advice there. It's especially good to get it from a rabbit's point of view

gentl wrote:I strongly suspect the grocer sprays them with a sulfite based solution to
prolong their shelf life. Many humans react poorly to the sulfites. They
give me ferocious migraines. Some people have gastrointestinal difficulties.
When I have a bad migraine I get nauseated. I know we are not rabbits,
but perhaps she has a headache and is nauseated from a sulfite agent.

I didn't know all this. Thanks for the info. I know the spraying veg has been talked about before but I haven't really given it enough credence until seeing so much detail. It also ties in what what Sparky said about even though the cabbage had been digested whatever it was that irritated her digestive tract was still making her unhappy. It does all fit and make sense.

Katieb wrote:How is she now?

No more news since 3.30. When they've said that all the tests came back okay and it's just a case of getting them eating again I will only get one message a day now at about 11am. I'm not expecting her to come home tomorrow as she wasn't eating for herself at 3.30 today but I thought that with Eloise and I was wrong so maybe.... but I think Wednesday is much more likely. They like them eating well before sending them home as 'mended'. I know she's basically okay now so not worried about her.

Glad to hear Esme's OK and you can stop worrying