Panacur?

I have never treated my rabbit swith panacur, should I? I have heard lots of conflicting advice. Vets seem to be pushing it more, but just since the rabbit version came out, are they under pressure from the drug company to sell more? Also I know the preventative course is 9 days, where as it's 28 days for an active case. If bun who has had the preventative treatment but then goes on to contract EC is there any chance the panacur will be less effective because the have already had the 9 day, ie do the "bugs" build a resistance to it?

Gosh it's a right day for EC debates isn't it

We'll seen as Im 'in mode'....
The 9 day course of Panacur is given as a preventative but my opinion is that this isn't a correct terminology for it because it would only prevent contraction of EC if it was given at the time when the rabbit was exposed to new spores (reference for this is the Intervert Panacur binary leaflet) so worming your rabbit 2,3 or 4 times a year for 9 days would not prevent them catching EC unless it was given during the period they were being exposed to live spores which had, for example, been shedded by an infected rabbit. Obviously this is near on impossible to ascertain without a feacal test. It is however why I recommend Panacuring rabbits who are 'at risk' such as in a boarding establishment. What I am not currently clear on is whether this should be before, during or after their stay....but I am inclined to say during and the same for bonding.

I don't agree with the Panacur frequency being 4 times a year as recommended by Intervet for 2 reasons:
1. The rabbits immune system believes the infection has been beaten because the Panacur lowers the spore count and the number of antibodies drops. The infection that was being jointly supressed by the fenbendazole and the antibodies then has less to supress it and can multiply out of control, becoming symptomatic.

2. As has been seen in horse wormers the protozoa mutates and becomes immune to, if not the entire bendazole family, fenbendazole at least.

This is also why I think worming bi-annually for 6 weeks is also too much. My personal preference is to do 2 courses of 9 days over the course of a year or, in a suspected symptomatic case, a 6 week course followed by 6 monthly 9 week courses as a 'top-up'.

My reasoning for this is that the shorter course to my understanding, can act to decrease the spore count and make the infection more manageable by the immune system in the short term whilst antibodies develop to the protozoa to allow the rabbit to fight the protozoa itself.

The longer course acts by seriously decreasing the number of spores as it is given throughout the shedding cycle and 'could' act to prevent sspores being produced as infectious when shedded. However a series of long courses could also affect the rabbits natural antibody response making them more susceptable to becoming symptomatic.

I have little doubt i have probably confused your more so apologies

No that all makes sense...My rabbits are all rescues, they are indoor buns and I don't board them. I can't see the point of giving the 9 day course because they either a) have it and it isn't symptonmatic, or b) they don't have it and won't be exposed to it. If they do have it a 9 day course won't clear it right? So is there any point?

Lou and the Buns wrote:No that all makes sense...My rabbits are all rescues, they are indoor buns and I don't board them. I can't see the point of giving the 9 day course because they either a) have it and it isn't symptonmatic, or b) they don't have it and won't be exposed to it. If they do have it a 9 day course won't clear it right? So is there any point?

I believe so because I feel that the 9 day course can help to lower the spore count which can keep it at a manageable level and means their antibodies and immune system have a better chance of keeping the infestation under control and asymptomatic. The major contributor to a rabbit turning from an asymptomatic carrier into a symptomatic 'active' case is felt to be that they are immunocompromised, that is, are fighting off another infection at the same time or have had their immune system weakened or stressed in some manner (after a GA for example). So if the spore count has been kept low and they have a good antibody response already in place then they are better placed to remain asymptomatic.

This is just a theory though, as always no-one has yet coughed up the cash to test it out

Ah ok, so the levels they may have are kept low enough to stop in becoming active! Hmmm might get some next time I'm at the vets

Lou and the Buns wrote:Ah ok, so the levels they may have are kept low enough to stop in becoming active! Hmmm might get some next time I'm at the vets

That's pretty much the jist of it yes but like I said I can't swear by it because there is no evidence to support it yet.

For lots of buns there's a cheaper way of getting it isn't there?

Yes, you can buy the Panacur 10% oral solution online and this costs about £13 a bottle. The dose rate is 0.2ml per kg of rabbit and is given for the same amount of time as the Panacur paste. It dosn't taste as nice though!

Is it safe stored out of the fridge...? If so I may have to procure someone's services for me as I am wanting to 'worm' my bunnies. Stu is still so skinny and Jane mentioned it the other day. I have had a look here and can't find anything (yet), will keep searching but I may at some point need to be cheeky and ask a favour

buddabun wrote:Is it safe stored out of the fridge...? If so I may have to procure someone's services for me as I am wanting to 'worm' my bunnies. Stu is still so skinny and Jane mentioned it the other day. I have had a look here and can't find anything (yet), will keep searching but I may at some point need to be cheeky and ask a favour

Yes it dosn't need to be stored cold and it keeps a fair time too. A bottle of the liquid would be best for you H, just check there are no drugs laws surrounding it over there that we don't have here.

This is very interesting - I've always been slightly confused by the Panacur issue

Sooz wrote:This is also why I think worming bi-annually for 6 weeks is also too much. My personal preference is to do 2 courses of 9 days over the course of a year or, in a suspected symptomatic case, a 6 week course followed by 6 monthly 9 week courses as a 'top-up'.

Do you mean 9 day courses here Sooz?

Rosie Rabbit wrote:This is very interesting - I've always been slightly confused by the Panacur issue

Sooz wrote:This is also why I think worming bi-annually for 6 weeks is also too much. My personal preference is to do 2 courses of 9 days over the course of a year or, in a suspected symptomatic case, a 6 week course followed by 6 monthly 9 week courses as a 'top-up'.

Do you mean 9 day courses here Sooz?

Yes, sorry a 9 day course every 6 months.....writing about EC is so confusing I end up muddling myself

ta sooz, am looking into it. got a meeting with the 'director' of the rescue operation over here so im sure she will advise me the best way of doing things

Can someone please put a link up of where to buy liquid panacur at the cheapest price please

Anyone please?

awww i don't have an answer but i'm your friend so answered

I have only ever used Lapizole so don't know how much it usually costs. The panacur paste is 3.56 on vetuk, i have used them and got my order next day

http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1105

ETA: They also do the 10% liquid for 13.04 - not sure which you wanted (EDIT again - now, I do, just read first post again, DOH!! - I think I left my brain at yours!! )

I know Sooz uses www.wormers.co.uk

Catswhiskas wrote:I know Sooz uses www.wormers.co.uk

Beat me to it! I have also used www.vetuk.co.uk, I think it's about £13 for 100mls of 10% liquid on there

Sorry to hijack your thread, Lou and the Buns. My rabbits are going into boarding next week. I don't think I could get the boarder to give them Panacur every day, so I would prefer to do it when they get home. Is this a good idea?

Yes it is, during or after boarding appears to be the best time.

i found a place that sold the paste at £3.50 a tube, but i dont know if you would prefer the liquid?x