Ewok - the outcome!

Well, where do I start...feeling very emotional and so much to report back i will give it to you in bullet point form in the hope it makes sense!

[list][*]I have got him, he is with us and having a sniff of everything in the cage - he is far less stressed than me thank fully!

• He is very dirty, feels skinny, his eyes and bottom look ok, though he has poo stuck to his bum and feet, his nails are long (which im surprised at as he is supposed to be only 14 weeks), the inside of his ears are clean and they dont smell, he doesnt have a head tilt, he isnt scratching his ears, he is a bit knotty and needs a good groom
  

The place is horrendous, she was celaning the hutches when we arrived, she must have over 30 rabbits, I was over whelmed, she had babies and mums ruuning around on the ground for our benefit i think, another mum and kids turned up while we were there to buy a baby and it looks like she has a thriving business

• The dogs were shut in the house thank god and barking away, I looked in the back door and there are urine stains up the walls, the place is chewed to bits, looks like a council estate, how can she have that amount of animals in a council house???
  

She straight away showed me to a clean hutch and took little ewok out, he scrambled all over her and she was quite rough with him picking the dry poo off his bum discreetly and chucking it on the floor when she thought I wasnt looking

• She gave him to me and I put him in my arm pit and pulled my jumper up over his bum and he calmed right down - at that moment she would have had to fight me for him - he was staying there over my dead body
  

She said, almost in an appologetic way 'now you have met him, and you like him dont you?! I will tell you all about him' - she told me that his mum had been given to her, passed from breeder to breeder, and she had a male, so she bred them, but this little ewok went down hill big time at 4 weeks so she thought he was going to die, didnt know what to do with him, (the word 'vet' springs to mind grrrrrr), a friend suggested to her that she worm him, she fed him critical care and he has been much better for the last couple of weeks

• she said she hadnt been doing this long, she would normally take in animals that were pregnant that other people didnt want, she see's herself as a rescue in a way, I kid you not!!!!!
  

I aksed what she was feeding him, there was a suspicous bowl of dried bits and bobs in his hutch- she showed me a dustbin full of dried stuff and said its full of all sorts, some of it is horse feed, ready grass, chudleigh's?? god knows, she says she buys a mix of stuff from a horse suppliers and mixes it up - apparently its really cheap!!! (I never would have guessed, no i dont want the address thanks all the same)

• She puts cloves of garlic in their water as apparently it is good for their tummy's??
  

Some of the water looked yellow and she told me it was vitamin c, the fizzy tablets for humans???

• She said he eats any veg at all, and has been fed all sorts
  

I asked to see his mum, she led us into a shed type building, it stank.... row upon row of tiny stinking rotting cages, urine splashes all up the wood, not full of poo, probably swept out regularly, just not washed - and if she hasnt been doing this long, how are they in that state?

• She took mum out of the tiny hutch, no way she can stand, she can hardly move in there, she is white with red eyes and is white, she looks clean though and there is nothing obviously wrong health wise. The breeder told us that she was given to her pregnant, and then she had bred her again to have this little chap and the other kits. She said she didnt want her bred again, as she has been passed from breeder to breeder to breeder and has had lots of litters, she doesnt know how old she is but has had her a year - god knows how many litters she has had there. She told me that if no one bought her she would keep her untill she died. She said she often gets give pregnant rabbits, she isnt really a breeder, they are all her pets (but you intentionally get them pregnant then sell them, if that isnt a 'real' breeder, what is!)
  

She told me she would like to hear how he gets on, as she is very fond of him, and she is really pleased that I am taking him (my £30 was very pleasing no doubt)
[list][*]My friend and I felt so sick and shakey when we came out, once we got home and got him settled we had a bit of a cry, and are trying to see what we can do about his mum, i told the breeder I would ask around to see if anyone could have her.

Im going to call the RSPCA when i have calmed down a bit, and got things into perspective, and when i know im not going to blub down the phone.

She seemed in some ways to be a nice lady, she obviuosly loves animals, just doesnt know what she is doing, she comes across like she is taking in animals in the way a rescue would, but then intentionally breed's them and sells them, i think she truly thinks she is giving them a great life.

The new clean but very small hutches with all the beautifull little babies in are on display, then you have this bunny shed hidden from veiw thats filthy, and if thats what its like when she is expecting potenial buyers, whats it like mid week? I know my two can trash the place in a couple of hrs, but urine splats and rotten wood? the smell was awfull.

Little tot here has drunk alot of water, i wonder if he has ever had fresh water that doesnt have a clove of garlic in it, or blackcurrant squash - i kid you not, she said he likes blackcurrant squash and biscuits - sounds like a 3 yrs olds tea party doesnt it. I really dont want to feed him the beep she has been giving him, but i know i cant just swap him to the excel and it has to be done gradually - im going to give him a small amount of veg as she said he eats it all the time and see how he goes, she mentioned celery when i asked her to be specific, and carrot, I will give him a bit of that and some 'horse food' and see how he goes.

Sorry for the sarcastic tone to this thread, i feel really ****, Im so gald he is here, but it still makes me feel like scum even going there. I will try and snap out of it, I will take some photos of him later, and we are still haggling over his name, i dont like julio, he doesnt look very spanish to me!

Oh dear sounds horrendous poor little mite and God help the other's, this is just one breeder how many more like this....

let us know how litte Ewok goes on Bless xxxxxxxx

How I wish you lived nearer! His mum may have been the bun your looking for for Kenzo

Garlic in their water
Blackcurrent squash

and the food she feeds them my God how many has she got with tummy problems

she is certainly not a rescue

Felix&Willow wrote:How I wish you lived nearer! His mum may have been the bun your looking for for Kenzo

Poor Mummy she should be living the life of a rabbit not a breeding machine

I'm glad you got him and he is now safe with you. It sounds truly horrendous there. Definately report her to the RSPCA.

OMG!!!! Calm down and write down everything you can remember and then contact the RSPCA. If they don't close this woman down, then they don't deserve to call themselves an animal welfare organisation! That is just so unimaginably dreadful. I don't know how you kept your cool. You're a star.

I will be writting up a statement - the women has only emailed me telling me that if i ever decide i dont want him, she will have him back to provide a 'forever' home, for once, I am speechless

*eesh* My stomach hurts just thinking about it; I can't imagine what horror it must be drinking garlic tinged water. How dare someone call themselves a breeder and a rescue when it took a third party to point out that, "maybe" the rabbits needed worming.

I hope the other bunnies make it to a loving home soon.

This is just so terribly sad and to think that this goes on every day all over the country She represents a small example of what is out there. Well done for being so calm and level headed. I wish I could be like that in that sort of situation.

Definately contact the RSPCA. You said on another thread you have a number for your local lady. Speak to her first. If she is anywhere near as helpful as our branch then you should be in luck.

I am thrilled you have this little fella and look forward to seeing how he progresses. You are a bunny angel.
Garlic in their water? Vitamin C tablets???? And as for that food????? Thank god you have him. I really cannot tell you how happy I am about this outcome and how thrilled we are to have you on HH
Nose rubs to the little fella x

Looking on our RSPCA website (Reading and Oxon borders) it states that volunteers should not be contacted directly regarding animal welfare, its a purely volunteer run operation with no centre. So I called the main RSPCA number this morning. I am assuming that the control centre is not maned by inspectors, though they must have training on what is acceptable and what is not. I reported back all the points stated above - the guy I spoke to stated their main concern was the horse feed. When I told him about the cramped conditions he asked how many rabbits per cage/hutch, and when I said one or two, he couldnt grasp in what way they were cramped, I had to point out that the rabbits could not stand up or hop around. He advised I contact trading standards with regard to her stating she is not a breeder, yet she is advertising rabbits for sale, and intentionally breeding them repeatedly - we arent talking about an accidental breed in a back garden, this is quite an operation she has going on.

Hmmph, we shall see. He said they will contact me with an outcome when a full investigation has taken place, and this could be up to four weeks, I asked if they would let me know if any of the animals were infact sick with an infectious disease, he told me he wasnt sure, but he hoped I would do the right thing and take Rory to the vet if he appeared unwell (well obviously you stupid man! I havent gone through all of this to neglect the poor little man have I! Grrrrr)

I will call our RSPCA lady after 12 tommorow when she maning the phone, and tell her about it, see if she has been made aware by then.

As for Rory, he seems inquisitive, is weeing and pooing, grooming himself, eating and drinking lots (though doesnt seem too keen on meadow hay, loves the readi grass, if I put my hand in his cage he licks it, if I raise my hand to stroke his head he legs it, though enjoyed a fuss yesterday when I started what will be a long process of cleaning him up. He does smell bad, i dont want to stress him out by doing it all at once.

I missed this yesterday and have just read it tears streaming down my face. Please god will the RSPCA do something about it.

i think Charlottes Idea of talking to your local RSPCA lady is the best one, she is more likely to help when she hears how distressed you are.

Please let us know how this goes.

I hope you are okay, I dont know how I would cope seeing something like that.

Sending you hugs and love for little ewok. x x x

Myself and DixieLubun are the rabbit fosteres for our area although I am on maternity leave at the moment. We are volunteers and we do not mind being contacted day or night to help tge bunnies. Or any animal. I suspect u may find your lady is the same. I would contact her hun, to hell with what the website says. Each branch is run differently and I know that our branch would move mountains to sort a situation like this. Unfortunately what people don't realise as it is never advertised is that the RSPCA is run with as skeleton staff, often only 5 inspectors to a 3000 mile square area. Volunteers make up the bulk of the crew. This is why often the call centre seem s scrupulous, although it is no excuse. Therefore I would seriously see your local lady, if she is any good she won't hesitate to help.

The lack of staffing to the countries only animal welfare organisation that can prosecute justv goes to show how sadly low in the list of priorities animals still are in reality, in this country I wish the government would do something about it.

Let us know how u get on. x

Ok, that is really usefull to know, thank you, i had no idea there were so few inspectors, I will ring her now in that case and let you know how I get on

Good luck.

Cant stop thinking about those poor buns.

Phone went to answer phone, i have left a msg, will let u know when she calls back. How tempting it was to take the mum at least, but i dont have anywhere to put her - if she isnt seized i will have to consider getting someone to go and buy her and go from there. The women will knows its me that reported her, she could sense was up, thats why she has emailed saying she will always take him back if i dont want him. She mis-read why i came across the way i did i think, she has mistaken my sadness and anger, and lack of coo-ing over all her rabbits as indifference perhaps. Be interesting to see if she emails me about it. She has emailed asking for photos and part of me wanted to tell her where to go, though i sent her some to give her an example of what they all should have, clean space for one. I actually dont want to be unkind to her, when she says rory is special to her i believe it, she just doesnt know what she is doing, and isnt willing or able to look after them properly, i dont know, the juries out for me on her intentions- is it ignorance or apathy? She spoke very proudly of their food, the stuff in their water, and i got the feeling that she would have been happy to chat and offer advice for hrs if i had hung around. Its a very sad situation all around

Sounds she needs educating really doesn't it. I can't imagine if any of those bunnies are healthy with what they get to eat and drink.

I think a lot of people don't understand how a rabbit's digestive system works. When I got Hugo - from Pets at Home, because we went gor hamster muesli and I couldn't stand to not take him! - the shop assistants were all extremly helpful and free with advise on food, but it was all wrong. If I had followed their advise I'd be feeding a 2.4kg rabbit 10kg of nuggets on a monthly basis.

I suspect a lot of people see rabbits as rodents...hence all the cheap mixed, dry muesli.

if she is new is there no way you could actually tell her? She may actually b miss informed and think she is doing the best for her bunny, i mean most people don't really know when they start out with a pet even if they have done research people all say different things.

I would start with the rspca and then go from there.

She is in her late 50's and has had animals all her life, she has had rabbits for years, she says she is new to breeding and selling (whilst not being a breeder) - you dont get the massive filthy setup she has over night. She is taking advice from friends of hers who keep other animals (like horses for instance) rather than taking them to a vet when they are ill. I really dont think my suggestions would be well recieved and taken on board - im new to bunny care myself, the difference is I will pay for qualified advice and preventative measures, and i dont have 30+ and breed them, which would be a mammoth task for anyone.

Aside from that im sure her intentions are good, she goes to extra effort putting cloves in the water bottles for instance, but doesnt srub the hutches. She stays up at night syringe feeding a poorly baby, yet doesnt take him to the vet. She takes in unwanted and pregnant does, and expresses sympathy for those that have been passed from breeder to breeder, yet sells the babies and breeds her again.

She emails me to ask how he is settling in and sends me photo's of his parents, and seems to genuinely care for his well being, yet she describes him as being at deaths door a few weeks ago and didnt take him to a vet. Its all contradictory. If she scaled it down and fussed over a couple of bunnies instead of 30 +, got them jabbed and neutured, change of diet, im sure they would be fantasticaly looked after.

At the end of the day, its not my place to judge, I have Rory out of the situation, I felt for all the reasons stated previously that there are welfare concerns for the rabbits there, I have reported that to the only people that have any power to influence change, or inforce it - its up to them now.

And as for the lady, I wish her all the very best, I hope she gets some good advice and based on that makes some big changes.
As for the bunnies I hope they end up well looked after wherever that may be.

And as for Rory, he is now part of my little family and Im very gratefull to the breeder for syringe feeing him and not just shoving him a box somewhere and waiting for it to be over, which is what some people would have done

how is he this afternoon?

Now that you have had a chance to have a good look at him how does he seem?

Pooing and eating ok??

Hi Katie,

Yes he is pooing and eating, I did think for a while he wasnt pooing enough, but actually if it probably equates to half of what I get in Willow and Felix's litter tray, he is drinking alot, yet his urine isnt offensive smelling or an odd colour or consistancy so I think thats all good.

He hasnt really had any bursts of activity, but I wouldnt say he is lethargic either. He seems to like being held and fussed but I am not completely sure whether this compliance is fear, so we have only had him out for 10 minutes at a time every few hrs to work on another patch to wipe and groom. He seems to feel most secure when I hold him facing forwards and tight against my tummy with my hand under his bum, his heart doesnt race and he doesnt scramble about (this is a revelation Willow and Felix would not stand of that),

He wolfed his food again earlier and I have mixed readi grass into his hay and he has nibbled quite a bit, yet nowhere near the amount of hay my two eat.

There was a bit of sticky poo in his bed this morning - someone has mentioned adding a pro-biotic to the water to me before when Willow and Felix had a phase of this, what do you think?

Im really pleased with how he is getting on, its difficult to tell at this point what to attribute to the trauma of being taken to a new place, what is his individual personality, and what other then cleaning him up, and the gradual diet change needs doing for him. I will take him to the vets tommorow for a check up, and to book him in for his jabs and neuter based on when the vet thinks he will be strong enough.

I am tyring not to be too fastidious in constantly cleaning his cage but he had wee'd on the towel I had left in the pet carrier he is using for his bed, I felt really mean taking it out as he was so snuggly and happy in there, but equally cant have him sat in urine. Bless his little heart, I didnt put a new one in as it will smell new again and he will probably do the same thing, so I have put hay in there with the newspaper hoping it will encourage him to munch more.

Im going to have to pop to tesco's soon or I wont have food for my human child, really hard to leave him!

Awww.

Yes pop some pro-biotic in his water it will help him. the amount he is drinking could be related to his eating readi grass as I beleive it had the same result when stewie was eating lots of it.

Poor little guy is prob making the most of being able to eat whenever he wants.

He is so lucky.

how are the girls dealing with it all?

Well done for being his saviour

Yea marsh cant have too much redi grass either ... must be a bit to rich so he only gets a little handful a day. I'm glad he is doing well!!

oh and about the towel, i found with marsh when i got him he was very nervous and flighty and with him the more i clean the more he wees to make everything his scent again. Which is annoying when you don't want them sat in wee >.>