frightened, stressed rabbits

I would like some advice about 2 of my rabbits. Poppy and Lily are sisters. They were born here 6 months ago. Their mum was pregnant on arrival, and had 6 bunnies. 3 died very young, but Poppy and Lily and their brother jacob survived.
These 2 girlies are so very scared..... they have always been like this. They act like wild rabbits, totally terrified of any interaction. Their brother Jacob is much calmer.... as is their mum Towie (now rehomed) and their dad Spain. But i don't know what to do about these 2 little girls.
They are part vaccinated (2nd vaccine soon) and currently unspayed (but will be done when funds are sufficient) and they live together.
I dont know how best to help them.
Do I split them up? Bond them with neutered, calm boys?
Do I force them to be handled every day?
Do I spay them and keep them together?
At the moment they are not homeable, and I would really like them to find a forever home.
Most of their life, they have been under the care of my member of staff Nigel. I have recently taken over their care, and am dissapointed at how frightened these girlies are.
I want to do what is best for them. Funds are limited, but they CAN be prioritised.
I would appreciate any advice regarding calming these girls down and making them happy....


Jan xxx

When I first got Flo she was a bit like you describe Jan. 2 things really helped her. One was moving house - she just feels more secure where we live now for some reason. The second more useful thing was that I discovered the dried chamomile flowers you can get for horses. I mixed a good handful of these into their daily hay and Flo began to calm enough to have sensible interactions. When they calm enough hopefully you will be able to begin to just sit with them without them freaking out. This is the stuff I used

http://www.pegasushealth.com/herbs_for_horses/chamomile-flower

Oh! to add to the chamomile thing, maybe lavender would help too? Mine love lavender, I often sprinkle it over their fresh food when they have it . I don't know if splitting them up would make them calmer, that could be more stressful for them. Especially if they are very bonded and get on well . I think maybe sitting with them in a quiet area, grab some tasty grub and let them come to you and try gaining their trust with food, normally helps! It could take a while, some rabbits REALLY hate being picked up. Though keeping them on the ground and letting them get used to being stroked etc. may help with the first steps.

Jan you don't think Daddy was a wild bun do you?

Chamomile is calming and Burgess do an excel chamomile herbage.

http://www.burgesspetcare.co.uk/products/rabbit/excel-chamomile-herbage-.html

Burgess are pretty good with rescues and I bet if you got in touch with them they would send you some samples.

I suggested the horse chamomile as you can add much more than is in the herbage. And it is the flowers that are most potent. It also occured to me that you have not mentioned whether they have been spayed. The op would not only potentially clam them but it give you an excuse to separate them (just through a wire partition) and see their individual characters better and also to give some TLC and handling in a way they are more likely to accept. Flo had a leg injury pre spay then was spayed so I spent quite a time attending to her wounds and I she was a real baby then. Whilst she is not a calm friendly rabbit now she is fine if I am doing something useful like cutting her nails. If this does not work I would consider re bonding with a calm boy or bonding their brother back to the pair of them. A calm inquisitive bun could help to encourage them to be friendlier.

My bridge bun Bertie was like this for a year Jan, it is hard.
I just persisted in handling him, brushing him with a brush taped to a stick, encouraging him to eat from my hand, etc. But he was an abused little man, and I didn't get him at birth. It seems strange that they're not more relaxed having been in rescue all their lives. Wonder if there is Wildie in them?

I think a bond is worth a go, it may help them, but I really woudln't know - are they terrified of other buns too?

I am pretty sure there is wildie in their genetics somewhere. We rescued a group of 9 rabbits from the same household. 2 were long haired with a good bit of lionhead in them.
The other 7 all looked like wild bunnies crossed with lionheads. All were wild-bunny-brown, with a little long hair on their heads. All these wild-ish looking ones acted like wild rabbits, But the older ones have calmed down a little.
The mother of these bunnies (Towie) was running with the male (Spain) on arrival here, so I knew she was pregnant, and separated them straight away. A week later she had her litter.
I have strong suspicions that both parents are closely related - perhaps siblings.
At the moment, these 2 girls are not spayed.
And yes - they seem to be scared of other bunnies too.
I can't clean out their house with them in it without them panicing and hitting the walls. If I try to hold them, or get them out to clean their house, I sometimes get a scream as well.
They LOOK like wildies, and act like wildies. If i didn't know better I would have already released them - but they are not wildies, and wouldnt be able to cope.
I will try the chamomile and lavender. Many thanks.

Jan,
CEVA, who make Appeasement pheromones for dogs and cats (DAP and CAP) also make them for rabbits (RAP). They don't however, market them in the Uk, only in France, where they are used in rabbit farms. http://world-rabbit-science.com/WRSA-Proceedings/Congress-2008-Verona/Papers/R-Bouvier.pdf

But, you may be able to get the company to send you a RAP, if you ask nicely! I know they've done it before. If you get one, they may ask you to keep data about how effective it is. They have been known to give this out for owners/rescues with problematic buns.

for Their UK outlet is http://www.ceva.co.uk/

Thie e-mail is: cevauk@ceva.com

Worth a try?

Thanks jay, very much worth a try. I have used CEVA dog and cat pheromone stuff with good effect, and was told some time ago that they were "working on" a rabbit one.
These two does sound like good candidates to try it out.
I will keep you posted.
Jan

My vet has been in touch with Ceva with regards to the rabbit appeasement pheromone, but it it still not available (even for vets) in the UK. They are doing extensive trials focusing on weight-gain of stressed farmed rabbits in France, but will keep my details on file and contact me in several years time if they decide to roll it out.
At least they know we are interested.
I have now had these 2 sisters spayed (a week ago) and they have been chilling out in a quiet secluded 5 foot hutch (double level) for about 3 weeks now.
The only change in them is that today one of them has started beating up the other. Really nasty fighting resulting in one of them screaming and knocking the furniture about.
I have separated them as I am so stressed at the moment and need to concentrate more on Hope.
I now don't know what to do with these girls.
Should I try them together again tomorrow? Should I try to bond them with Bracken and George when they are fully over their operations? Or keep them apart and try to calm them down separately?
Has anyone used Serene-um for rabbits?

serene-um - yes with little effect. I have more effect with the dried chamomile flowers. The buns also get very relaxed when lying in the garden under the lavender bushes when they are in flower so dried lavender might well be worth trying.