Tigger- Coccidia and now E.cuniculi? UD: MONDAY

I hope Tigger is feeling better soon

Oh dear! Poor Tigger and poor you! I can't imagine how stressed and exhausted you must feel from worrying so much about her.
I really hope it isn't EC and she is just marking her territory. I couldn't view the video but hoping it is just her being tired as some others have said. She has been through so much the poor girl.

*huge hugs and mega vibes!*

Thank you all.
Quite overwhelming really!

I joined the yahoo! group Cheryl mentioned in another thread and a rabbit vet on there posted a reply to me saying if the incontinence is due to E.C, then it is because there are lesions on the nervous system in the spine or on the brain which then affect bladder function.

They also suggested Metacam which is something I don't have to hand here so I'm considering a vet visit tomorrow. I really don't want to make her worse by a stressful car journey and poking and prodding but I'm not sure what to do for the best

Is it best for a vet visit tomorrow or see how we go with panacur and wait until I've contacted Richard Saunders for ideas?

She seems very happy in herself, she was chasing Jeeves with ease earlier trying to hump him, mugged me for fenugreek crunchies and had the cheek to grunt at me. So she seems very strong at the moment, no more head scanning either.
I've read on here people worried about e.c and seen head scanning and started panacur with no metacam and bun healed up quick.

Gosh

As I get the emails from the forum I have read the information given to you. One of the great benefits of the on the wonk forum is the vet input. I think it also highlights how we as owners - even the informed ones - still have a lot to understand about E.C. As I understand it E.C. is a protozoa that can be present but dormant for a long time. Once it is active it causes interior lesions in the spinal area and it is these lesions that cause the symptoms of E.C. such as head tilt or back leg mobility issues. I think what the vet on OtW was suggesting is that you should give the metacam to reduce the size of these lesions. Metacam has a similar effect on buns as ibruprofen in humans. The reduction of pain is achieved by relieving the inflammation or swelling. This works even if there is no pain. I think the vet was saying that the metacam will reduce the swelling of the lesions whilst the illness is active and therefore minimise the symptoms. At least that was my understanding, I could be wrong.

What you could do is to get the temp. vets to send the notes from their stay to your vets and then ask if they will just give you the metacam without seeing her but with the information from the notes and with the advice from OtW.

Thanks Cheryl it makes more sense now that you have explained the effect of the metacam on the lesions. I always thought metacam was pain relief not an anti inflammatory as well. Certainly worth getting then if it helps stop her incontinence.

I'll get on that later tonight and try and sort it all out tomorrow.

It is an NSAID - non steroid anti-inflammatory drug.

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I was stunned to hear of these developments in precious Tigger! My thoughts,
vibes and prayers are with Tigger , Jeeves and you.

cheryl'n'bruce'flo wrote:As I get the emails from the forum I have read the information given to you. One of the great benefits of the on the wonk forum is the vet input. I think it also highlights how we as owners - even the informed ones - still have a lot to understand about E.C. As I understand it E.C. is a protozoa that can be present but dormant for a long time. Once it is active it causes interior lesions in the spinal area and it is these lesions that cause the symptoms of E.C. such as head tilt or back leg mobility issues. I think what the vet on OtW was suggesting is that you should give the metacam to reduce the size of these lesions. Metacam has a similar effect on buns as ibruprofen in humans. The reduction of pain is achieved by relieving the inflammation or swelling. This works even if there is no pain. I think the vet was saying that the metacam will reduce the swelling of the lesions whilst the illness is active and therefore minimise the symptoms. At least that was my understanding, I could be wrong.

What you could do is to get the temp. vets to send the notes from their stay to your vets and then ask if they will just give you the metacam without seeing her but with the information from the notes and with the advice from OtW.

The bolded bit is my understanding of how it works too. Artie is on daily Metacam as an anti-inflammatory because of bladder sludge. It reduces the effects of the sludge which causes inflammation on the wall of the bladder which then becomes painful and eventually would be infected. Artie also has EC, he had one of the highest titres (readings) that my vet has seen a year ago. In his case the damage was to his kidney and probably what's causing the bladder sludge. The diagnosis (or suspected diagnosis) strikes fear in your heart but if you can get on top of it and manage the symptoms it can have a good outcome.

Poor Tigger, as if she hasn't been through enough already. Sending good wishes for a quick resolution to this for her.

Thanks Big Ears Poor little Artie.

Thought I'd give you all an update.
Tigger has been completely bonkers! She's springing around all over the place, chasing Jeeves to hump him and vice versa. She bit my finger when she mugged me for a fenugreek crunchie and grunted at me when I tried to move her so I could sweep up (note to self: don't disturb a fenugreek crunchie eating bunny!)

I had a mad phone call Tuesday night from my mum asking if she was definitely ill because she had jumped into the hay box (quite a way up from the floor) and started digging in the readigrass bag. She took her out and then she jumped right back in again.

Both are eating more and more hay as days go by meaning poos are looking more and more healthy!

The amount they have been drinking has gone down drastically. It's gone from 900ml between 10pm and 10am // 10am and 10pm to 550ml!! The puddles have also become far less frequent. I walked in on the second morning of this mystery to 7 puddles. Today we have 3!!
To be honest Im now trying to toss up what is incontinence and what is pure lazy bunny!!

At Carolines they had obviously lost some of their toilet training as they had a toilet in their bed, this morning I found a very strategically placed wee in the very back corner of their bed and I cannot decide if some bun has done it on purpose. They're both weeing and pooing in the toilets but also just outside them within a 30 cm radius. Jeeves is easily led so it makes me wonder if he's thinking well she can wee outside, so can I! So litter training is something we need to pick up on again properly. It's all very hard because they don't do it when I'm in there - I'm in and out all day but of course they do it when I'm not watching

All Tigger has been on is panacur and probiotic and things are getting better slowly. We are on day 4 but I've not given the dose yet as last nights was late.

It's getting me wondering whether she needs the metacam now as everything is slowly going back to normal and giving metacam will undoubtedly create a lot of stress- she doesn't do being picked up or force fed. I'm knackered chasing round after her and just generally watching her

Wow, it seems like things are getting back to normal. Tigger is definitely feeling better and causing as much mayhem as possible! Just what a harlequin should be doing
It sounds like they are maybe just marking their territory or like you said, forgotten about the litter training lol. It took my Xena a while to stop peeing in strategic places in the bedroom when I got her, she used the litter tray but would do small wees around the room (and on my bed!). Hopefully if you keep mopping it up they will eventually get that you don't not want them to pee outside the litter tray.

I'm so sorry I've missed this, I've been away and I'm trying to catch up on everything on the forum!

Poor Tigger. It sounds like she's really been through the wars lately (and no doubt caused you loads of stress along with it!). I'm glad to hear she's still herself and whilst I can't advise you on stopping/starting meds etc, just wanted to send lots of vibes to you both from Willow and myself.

Hun I think that you should finish the course of whatever she has been given.

Will she take the metacam on something? Buns normally like the taste of it. Even daisy will lick ot straight from the syringe.

I'm really pleased to hear she is doing so well bless her x

Sorry, may not have made myself clear.
She's on a 28 day course of panacur which I will finish, but someone else suggested she may need metacam to help with the lesions which will reduce the incontinence. I've not been given metacam.

The incontinence however seems to reducing massively as is the excessive drinking and certainly no more odd head movements all just on panacur because I caught it early. So I'm wondering if I need to consult the vet about metacam at all.

I'd ask the vets advice, at least. Then you know any decisions you have made are the right ones

I'm chuffed to bits that she seems so much better

Okie doke, can't hurt to ask!

I'll try and ring early tomorrow to catch them right away rather than being told by the receptionist to wait for a call back.

Sparky wrote:I'd ask the vets advice, at least. Then you know any decisions you have made are the right ones

I'm chuffed to bits that she seems so much better

i agree with sparky
glad tigger is sounding better some very good signs she is showing

Oh sorry Hun I was trying to sneakily read it on my phone at work!

Haha no worries!

Dotdot wrote:Not tried blueberries, will buy some tomorrow and see what they think. I can tell there's going to be a lot of bribing!

The consolation is she is feeling well enough to play up and refuse the syringe. Both sped to their bowl of pellets when I put them down which is fantastic as Saturday night to Sunday evening they refused to eat them.

How is the beautiful Joey?

Let us know how you get / got on!

So pleased to hear from Thursday's update that she is feeling miles better

Joey has nasal infection and he's on a course of antibiotics for a minimum of four weeks. I'm sure he sympathises with Tigger!

Sounds like Tigger has bound back to being her wonderful vivacious self! I am so happy! I hope you can get some rest. I know you have really had a lot to worry about these past few weeks.

Hi all.
Vet rang and I've been told I am pretty much doing everything right at the minute. She said panacur would be her first step too and as the incontinence has got better there's no need for anymore meds at the moment. It could be E.C but then it could be the smorgasbord of meds she's been on and she's incredibly vulnerable. She said to document everything -which I am in a diary - and of things urine wise and drinking goes downhill again then to take her in and do 1. A urine test and 2. Test kidney function.

At the start of the week I was finding about 9 puddles of wee a day and they were drinking 900ml. Now there's no puddles and they're down to 500ml

Good Tigger

My OH has come over for the weekend and he thinks she has put on a little weight since last weekend when he last saw her. I guess because I'm with her all week I haven't noticed a slight change like that.
I'll weigh her tomorrow.

Poor you and poor Tigger, she's been through so much over the last few weeks. You must be exhausted with all the worry. Sending lots of get well vibes.

Topping up the get well vibes and to you x