Bonding help please.

Please can our experienced members help a new member who has two girls that need bonding.

Hi there,

Welcome to HH 

Sounds like you are doing the right things in the first instance, letting them see and smell each other.  It is very difficult to bond two girls, as girls are very territorial, but it can be done.  Its not going to be easy though, and is going to take time and patience.

The first thing I would do is leave them like this for at least a couple of weeks.  They need to get used to each others company.
Cross scent them...this means....swap their blankets and things around so that they get used to each others smell in their cages.  
What are they being fed on?  some high sugar foods can add to agression.  
Are they getting lots of out of cage time to get lots of exercise?  Its important that they let off steam (not together at the moment)

Once they have had a while next to each other, the next thing to do is to get them into neutral territory.

Pop them somewhere they feel slightly unsure of.....a bathroom is normally a good place because neither of them will have been able to claim it as their territory.

make the space relatively small, and have a way of separating them if they start to fight.  Once they have had several meetings like this and they are no longer fighting....expand the space...slowly.

Not until they are grooming each other and they are eating happily together should they go back into the cage together.  before they to, descent the cage and mix up their stuff so that nobun wants to get territorial.

They may hump each other, this is a sign of them trying to exert dominance.

Im sure someone with lots of experience will be along to offer more advice soon.

You can ask questions and we will help you every step of the way.  :-)

Hello

Welcome to HH. Have your girls been spayed?

Hi, They eat unlimited hay, high quality pellets and veggies. They're let out 4 to 5x a day and on nice days they go outside to enjoy the sunshine and grass for most of the day until its to cold or to many bugs. Butch will spend more time out sometimes since she's not scared of the dogs but not by much. Both are spayed and are from the same rescue just acquired months apart, could Butch be protective of me? She's 10x worse when it's around me than if a friend was watching them.

She could be bonded with you, thats true, but I think its just likely she feels she was there first and therefore its HER territory and that Diezel is intruding and she must defend it. 

You do get buns where one is a lot more confident than the others....of my three, none of them are remotely the similar in personality.  

My tiny Nethie is massively confident and will happily box anyone, but my very clever larger lionhead is a scaredy bun whereas my lop is not bothered by anything....not because she is brave, but because she is dim.

Sounds like they have a fabulous life , just need to get them together, and it will be perfect!

I've had butch for over a year now, I'd like to say we have a good bond, she follows me around, comes when she is called and lets me do whatever to her. When she met Diezel for the first time she totally dominated her and they were fine but one of my dogs (Beast) needed a ACL surgery done and I didn't have time for a 2nd rabbit for obvious reasons. When I went back to apologize for never coming back to pick up Diezel (formally Ruby) they had told me they still had her so I jumped on it right away and took her home. This was many 6months later. Part of me wonders if Butch is territorial of me.

No, she is just territorial im sure of it.
It is VERY VER early days, and Butch needs time to get used to having another bun around and Diesel needs time to settle in.  You need to give it time.

Just a thought?  Do your rescue do bonding?  Here in the UK, the rescue centres will do the bonding for you - so you would drop both buns off with them for a couple of days....and when you pick them up they are in love and you can bring them home to harmony.

When I originally went to pick out a new rabbit Butch tagged along and actually had chosen this rabbit (Diezel) over ALL the rabbits she met (she met like 20 rabbits that day) and the rescue was confident they were going to be fine together, so maybe they thought since they had been so good that one time that they'd be fine now, even the time given. Would you say bring both rabbits back and see what they say? I'm keeping Diezel no matter what. She spent her whole life at the rescue and was born there from a rabbit dropped off there. She needs a home.

Hi and Welcome

Two girls can be quite difficult to bond as they can be more aggressive than males unless they are litter mates and that doesn't always work either. You sound as if you are doing everything correctly and I think Katie could be right when she said that Butch with being there first could be defending her territory.

I shall let someone else answer this for you as our methods of bonding rabbits are different as we have them next to each other for a few week's sometimes month's and then we just put them in a rabbit run together and walk away and hide and watch from a distance that we can quickly rush and intervene if we need to as we have found for us this is a better method as we feel sometimes our presence make's them worse and more aggressive with each other, this method has worked for us but I wouldn't advise it for everyone.

I agree and think Butch is being territorial, the thing that puzzles me is she's not aggressive by the fence, near the food or water. (all their stuff is right next to each other just separated through the little barrier) but once Butch is near me in particular is when she gets really raunchy and attacks almost in a instant, if someone else is trying it (ie my girlfriend) Butch is considerably less aggressive.

Is there an understanding friend who would let you spend a few days in their house with both buns?

It sounds so territory related that I think if you could get them bonded somewhere completely strange to both of them (and thoroughly clean your entire house while they are away) it might work. You need the bond between them to be stronger than the desire to protect territory before they are brought back somewhere one of them considers her own.

Our experience of house rabbits is that they tend to consider the whole house theirs, even areas they have not been before. Whether this is because the humans in the household track just enough scent around the rest of the house, I don't know. When bonding house buns, we have generally let them meet in separate quarters for long enough to become accustomed to each other, then when we feel the time is right we put them together in a smallish pen outdoors. When the body language and behaviour is favourable, we bring them back in to an unfamiliar part of the house, confine them to a smallish pen and gradually increases space as their bond strengthens.

I do agree that bonding two unrelated females can be very difficult. If they just will not bond, would you be in a position to take on a neutered male for each of them? If so, would it be practical to move one pair outdoors into a secured set-up? (Just to avoid referred aggression).

outdoors unattended in my area is SO dangerous for a rabbit. I personally have 5 working dogs ONE of which happens to be a Malinois and they're trained "If its in the house, its not food" outside is another matter. We also have coyotes, hawks, coons, opossum and cats. one of my rabbits is fearless (Butch) and would get eaten quickly. I would consider getting another rabbit for Diezel but Butch seems to be a people rabbit over a rabbit, rabbit. I'm going to take them to the rescue and see what they think if they can get along or not. I refuse to give Diezel back simply because she's never had a home where someone can love her and cherish her. In my area rabbits are dropped off at shelters quicker than any other animal. I have a large enough set up for both rabbits to be happy and have enough time to spend one on one with each. I have a friend who may be willing OR I can see if the rescue would be willing to watch them and try and bond them themselves.

It's still very early too. They do need some time to get to know each other.

Hello there

I don't really have much advise to offer - I've only ever done one bonding with my pair and they were in love from day one.

I think you could be right with feeling that Butch is territorial, although possibly not over you. My Willow (the blue bunny in my siggy), lived alone as a house bun for a year. She was very close with me and to this day is still super people-friendly. She's even unspayed (due to a medical condition). She will sometimes go through hormonal cycles being territorial towards Mojo (her friend), but never specifically with people. I hope that made sense!

I just wanted to say that you sound like a really responsible owner and it's lovely that you're keeping Diezel no matter what. Sometimes, some bunnies just don't want to bond. We have a member on here with a bunny, Myrtle, like that. I hope the rescue can give you some help though

I echo what a lot of the others have said. I would also stress the importance of time. It took me 6 months to bond my pair. They swapped hutches every other day and were put in a neutral bonding room every day and every day they fought. The one day they didn't. One day something changed and Bruce appeared to say to Flo 'come through here, I want to show you my hutch. And Flo trundled off after him and they lived happily (mostly) ever after. They have quite a fiery relationship with lots of chasing but they are very much in love really. So I would advise that you persevere. 

Also I would try and stop yourself from intervening too much when they squabble. If they are chasing then leave them even if they are fur pulling. Only intervene it they are sort of yin yang type formation and/or determined to bite properly.