A frank conversation about emergency/out of hours vets.

I realise this is a very subjective topic but I think it's an important one to discuss openly, because the perception of this service isn't good in the main.

The majority of the accounts I read on here and elsewhere about the out of hours vet service seem to end with the feeling that people wish they hadn't bothered, that the only option was PTS, that the vet didn't know jack about rabbits, that they didn't care because they'd never seen the bunny before, that they treated it completely incorrectly, etc etc.
There are also accounts where the bun recieved the correct treatment, and where the standard medication for the condition (eg stasis) was dispensed, and the bun was treated effectively, but they do seem to depend on the quality of the vet and wether the vet belongs to your practice of you are sent somewhere alien to you and the bun. I realise that if your vet is offering the service and you're not being sent to another one, then it would probably affect the decision too. You're own experience of certain conditions will come into play as well, and a new bunny owner would not necessarily be in the position of having a choice about wether to go or not.

As a result of these accounts, I am very reluctant to use this service, and would only consider using out of hours if I am dealing with a condition that I have no experience with (such as bloat) and I think Bertie could die as a result of the condition and my lack of experience.

To illustrate why I'm questioning this, I'll be very frank about the all nighter I had with Berts last week, and I hope you understand my reasonings. When we found him caked in sludge,in the evening, I knew it was mush more serious than anything I'd seen before. Bertie was clearly frightened, and rigid, and we were very worried about the next few hours. The next deposit was less volume, but runnier, and clearer, and i knew we heading towards full diarrheoa (sp). At that point I started to think about the vet. I weighed up all the pros and cons, taking into account that he could end up dying an a vet's table, or in the car, and the vet may not know what to do, and I simply didn't feel like I could let that happen.
Because of my experience nursing him with his problems over the last few months, (and the shared experiences of others) I have a very good meds kit, which I felt able to administer properly. Had I not had this experience, or meds, the decision of wether or not to take him would have been far more easier than it was, and if I'd seen this for the first time, I would have taken him, no question.
Throughout the night as he seemed to be getting no better, I made a very scary decision, that if Bertie was going to die, he was going to die at home, with me. I became resolute about that. If we had taken him out in the night to a vets and he had died on the journey of there, I would have felt worse and more responsible for that than the resolution I took.

There is no doubt that these thought processes were heavily influenced by the accounts of other people's experiences.

Without going into all the stories we already know, I was hoping you may be able to share your views on the service, and wether or not and when you would use it. So please respond even if you've never used it, and relate your thoughts on it based on what your perception.
I'd really like to know what conditions you would most certainly take a bun to the out of hours, and when you wouldn't.
Personally I would not take Bertie to out of hours for stasis, I would wait until the morning and take him to my regular vets, I think I would consider it for bloat, but that's only based on the fact that you need certain things for it that I don't have, so i would feel incapable of helping him with that.

Thankfully Bertie made it. There was, IMO, just as much chance that he wouldn't have made it, and i would have had to live with that, but I would have, because his life would have ended comfortably, in a place that's his and with us. I hope you understand that, I realsie it's contraversial.

Thanks

ETA: Forgot to put my vets OOHS situation; I use the only bunny savvy vets in Southampton, and they do not operate the OOHS. I have checked this already. There is a Vet
s for Pets and one other that is not bunny Savvy that alternate nights.

Sadly I've had to make the decision about 8 or 10 times in the last year When I rang local vets on a Sunday evening (Rudy had bloat though I wasn't experienced enough to be sure at the time) the vet said, "Well he may have a twisted gut and the prognosis would be very poor", and did I want to take him anyway?? As opposed to let him die in pain and save £75 I presume

Esme had a couple of episodes of what I think were an infection and she was hot and rolling about. They started at 11pm/midnight. I didn't want to move her in that state as she seemed so vulnerable, (same as you Jay, I think, I decided if she was going to die I wanted it to be the least distressing for her as possible ) so I just nursed her, reviewing my decision all night long. She seemed calm after an hour but didn't eat. Luckily my rabbit savvy vets (20 miles away) do an open surgery for emergencies on a Sunday morning so I was able to get her seen as an emergency. She was fine within hours of having metacam/metaclopramide - the vet I saw that day admits to not being a rabbit expert, so if I had made the emergency call I'm not sure how much difference it would have made.

I've nursed rabbits through not eating episodes from about 11 pm to 9 am a few times since but wouldn't do it if they were showing signs of pain more suggestive of bloat which I always treat as absolute emergency. It can be bad enough during the day tracking down a vet that you are willing to see in an emergency, luckily both vets practices I use do their own out of hours services but not all the vets are as rabbit savvy as I would like and I hope and pray I don't ever have to see the vet that thought leaving Rudy in pain was okay

Artie had a not eating episode (he has them regularly) and was obviously in pain so I rushed him to rabbit savvy vets (Thursday afternoon) and he was admitted as he had cystitis secondary to loads of calcium in his bladder and was operated on on Good Friday to have his bladder opened up and the calcium removed (cystotomy) this could have got very nasty if left longer. I dread to think a non-rabbit savvy vet might not even have diagnosed it properly. I really dread such a situation in an out of hours situation with no savvy vet available

Opps quoted myself by accident instead of editing

What an interesting subject for Sunday afternoon!!!

Firstly I have to say that I have not had to deal with the emergency vet so I am only going on what I have read/heard of other peoples experiences.

I don't think that there is a straight forward answer to the question, it depends on the problem and whether the bun is suffering, when it occurred, how long it would be until I could get to my own vet and whether I could do anything for them between time.

Having said that, personally I would only take them to the emergency vet if they were suffering and I really had no other choice. If I thought I could nurse them through until I could get to the vet I would rather do that. The only occasion it was out of hours was the bank holiday monday and my vets were covering, and although it wasn't my normal vet I was happy the vet covering was rabbit savvy for that occasion.

Having had non rabbit vets in the past it would have to be a situation where I really had no other choice, ie the rabbit was suffering and I could do nothing for them. I could not live with myself if I put both the bun and myself through a traumatic vet visit only for them not to get the proper treatment or worse.

I suspect that like most people here, the out of hours vet is something that I dread!

On the very few occasions that I have had to see a vet out of hours, I have always seen a vet from my own practice. In my experience, the rabbits have been treated to the highest standard on these occasions. I have no complaints about the vet practice here in Sidmouth or the one I attended in Chandlers Ford in Hampshire.

I have issues with the OOH service here in Lincoln. There is only one and I don't rate them in the slightest. Having used the service before, which I think ultimately led to the death of my precious Princess, I would only use them after giving the situation a thorough evaluation first.

I have only used the service twice. Once with Holly when she was very ill. It is our regular vets who do the OOHS and they treated her really well. The second time was when I was in Ireland and Gloria took her wobbly. OH phoned about it and described her symptoms and the vet said she would be fine until morning and to take her in if she was no better. That was good advice because she was fine the next day. All in all, the service I have had has been fine, but I don't have a lot of experience with buns to really evaluate.

As most of you are aware I use two different veterinary surgeries here in Sheffield, one which is exceptionally good with rabbits and the other which knows just enough (but have been attending courses and will refer for advice). The specialists use VetsNow for emergency's....located on the other side of the city to me.....and the ordinary vets do their own. However, the specialists run surgeries Saturdays AND Sundays so they are only unattainable in the evenings.

I am in the blessed position of never having had to attend VetsNow where I am informed it's around £100 before you are even seen (and often up front as though they worry you won't pay after the consult) and sadly I have heard several bad reports relating specifically to their treatment of rabbit's and moreso an apparent lack of knowledge. In the leaflet holders of my vets they actually have a leaflet produced by VN about what constitutes a bunny emergency, and it's pretty good, so my guess is this deficiency is specific to the branch rather than the organisation.

The reason I have never needed to use VN is that either a rabbit has been critically ill during surgery hours, has died very suddenly before help could be sought or has had a condition I felt able to deal with myself. The only real reasons I could forsee for me needing to go to VN would be if PTS was required immediately to relieve suffering or if the condition required urgent drugs I did not have in storage or did not have the knowledge to administer....the main ones being a strong painreliever or perhaps a anti-convulsant.

I'm glad to hear some good accounts in the thread, thanks for the contributions so far

jomart wrote:one I attended in Chandlers Ford in Hampshire.

Jo, would you mind posting or PMing me their details, thanks