Bald Patch (pics) - Reaction to Cylap VHD Vaccine?

Paddy and Benji had their VHD vacs yesterday and this evening I have noticed Paddy nibbling and grooming at his leg.

I've discovered there's a bald patch about the size of a 2p piece at the top of one of his front legs. I managed to get some pics of it - it looks clean and he seems pretty much fine in himself apart from over-grooming this patch. He's eating and moving about fine.

As I've heard about reactions to the Cylap vaccine, am I (probably) right to assume this is one such case? The bald patch is nowhere near where the vaccine was injected - can these patches occur on other parts of the body, not just near the injection site?

I was all set to take him to the emergency vet tonight, but I think that's probably not necessary. Should I take him to the vet in the morning? As I say it looks clean and the skin doesn't appear to be broken. Don't know if he would benefit from Metacam. Should it just clear up on its own? (obviously we'll keep a close eye on it).

I actually asked the vet yesterday if they ever used Lapinject, and she said they had done in the past, but they tend to stick to Cylap. I didn't pursue it, but I'll not be having the Cylap done again.

Any advice welcome, thanks

I would have assumed a skin reaction to Cylap would be at the injection site, but I may well be wrong about this.

I have no idea about Paddy's bald bit except to say that these buns do like to worry us. I was talking to (or rather at) Chris earlier about this. Any problems with the cat I can take in my stride, any problems with the bunnies sends me into a flat spin. Why is this

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me will be able to offer more constructive advice.

In the meantime sending soothing vibes to Paddy.

Thanks Vanessa, I would have assumed too that if Cylap was the cause the bald spot would have been at the injection site - it may be something completely different to blame.

Like you, I do get so stressed when there's something wrong with bunnies - I think it's because they are such fragile creatures.

Thanks for the soothing vibes.

I've now been in contact with someone on another forum whose bunnies had a very bad reaction to the Cylap vaccine and all 3 had nasty bald patches in exactly the same place as Paddy has his, at the top of his front leg. So between that and what a couple of other people have said, I'm pretty sure the vaccine is to blame.

I'm so annoyed with myself as I knew it could cause reactions but it's the vaccine my vet uses and I just went along with that without insisting on Lapinject. I certainly won't be letting a bunny have Cylap again.

Paddy is now holding his paw off the floor a bit and therefore limping. The bald patch itself doesn't look any worse (and it's covered by fur, so if you didn't look for it, you'd just see him limping). He is eating and drinking normally, although there's quite a lot of uneaten caecotrophs in the tray.

We have an appointment at 5.10pm with our vet, so will update later.

I think I can explain why it has occured on his leg, the Cylap vaccine can sometimes drip out of the entry point (or the vet can partially inject through the scruff) causing some of the liquid to run across the body. The obvious route for this escaped liquid to take is down the front leg, where, if left to sit it will cause a reaction. The reaction itself is to one of the preservatives rather than an active ingrediant.

Ensure your vet reports the reaction to the manufacturers, Forte Dodge, who will then cover your additional medical expenses.

Poor Paddy Big vibes for your special boy Helen x

Thanks Jay.

Sooz - that's very interesting, thanks for that. Would never have occurred to me. I'll get the vet to report it. The other girl I was in contact with had £200 of medical expenses covered by the manufacturers. It's shocking really - I certainly won't be using it again, and I feel very bad that I've put them though this.

Apparently in recent months the product information leaflet has been updated, and it now says:

Adverse Reactions

"Up to 50% of animals will show palpable reactions which consist of swelling measuring up to 2 cm in diameter, redness and in some cases hair loss. The swelling subsides within 2-3 weeks without further treatment. Up to 50% of animals will show transient moderate pyrexia appearing within one day of vaccination and lasting for up to 3 days. Following vaccination animals may exhibit transient forelimb lameness which normally resolves within 48 hours."

This is very interesting - when daisy had his VHD last year he had it on the friday - and then on the sat night we took him to the emergency vet as I thought he had broken his leg.......£140 later he hadnt broken his leg and he stopped limping the following day.

He hasnt yet had his VHD this year as he is fighting his jaw infection.

So is Lapinject the safer option????

Sending lots of get well vibes for Paddy.

x x x x

Thanks Katie.

What a shame about what happened with Daisy. It does sound like he had a classic reaction to the Cylap vaccine.

It's now my understanding that, like Sooz says, if your vet reports this to Fort Dodge, the manufacturers, they will cover additional medical expenses. I don't know if this could be done retrospectively though. Maybe worth a try if it's the Cylap Daisy had? £140 is a lot of money!

I don't know much about Lapinject except that once the vial of fluid is opened, it needs to be used within the day, and it's enough to vaccinate about 5 rabbits (I think), so it's not quite so convenient for vets to use as they have to have several rabbits in on the same day to be vaccinated.

I think Lapinject is preferred by a lot of people as it doesn't seem to cause the skin problems or the limp.

If you search for Lapinject and Cylap on the NOAH COMPENDIUM you can see that there are far fewer contraindications for the Lapinject, so it does seem like a safer option.

I certainly won't be having the Cylap done again.

How is Daisy's jaw doing now?

POOR PADDY! ...and poor you too!!! I hope you have some luck at the vet tonight, and hopefully this all gets covered for you!

Thanks for the info hun,

Im certainly going to ask them - dont ask dont get etc. It was over a year ago though so im not hopeful.....I wish id found this forum 2 years ago thats for sure. Im definately going to find out if its the Cyclap he had....I suspect it was.

The boys jaw infection is getting there we think. Mr Chitty has been doing a marvelous job in looking after him. He was diagnosed in December after we were referred to Mr C having been ill since sept and nearly loosing him in oct. We were told it would be a long road - but that we would get there in the end. Daiz had his last check up about 4 weeks ago, and the infection was clearing so fingers crossed it will be nearly gone next time we go back.

Keep us updated with how you get on at the vets today - fingers crossed the manufacturs will cover any additional costs.

Thanks ElleyMay

No problem Katie - I hope you get some satisfaction if you pursue it. You're quite right - if you don't ask, you don't get!

Glad to hear Daisy is getting there with his jaw. It's obviously a long, slow process. Mr Chitty sounds like a wonderful man, and it's great you were able to take Daisy to him. Hope the jaw continues to improve x

Well, we're back from our vet with the boys. The vet had obviously had a look at the Cylap Data Sheet before we saw her and by her own admission hadn't looked at it recently, so wasn't aware of the latest information regarding adverse reactions.

I think she was quite shocked to discover that the manufacturers are now saying that up to 50% of rabbits can suffer adverse reactions and has said she will speak to them herself and report what has happened with Paddy. She's also said that she'll make sure her colleagues in the Practice are aware of the problems with Cylap. There was a vet student in with us today so she will now know as well. The vet will be happy to use Lapinject next year with our buns.

Our vet was very apologetic that we've had to go through this with Paddy and we weren't charged anything today, which was good.

Paddy was unfortunately a bit stressed out by the vet visit and examination, and is still holding his paw off the ground. Hopefully that will be OK again in a day or two. The bald patch isn't looking any worse thankfully. We were advised to give him Metacam, which we have done. I wondered if it would interfere with the vaccine, but the vet said it's only steroidal drugs which can interfere with its efficacy, and of course Metacam is non-steroidal, so no worries there.

Otherwise, it's just really a case of waiting and hoping that he will be back to normal soon.

Is there any way that the makers of Lapinject could be coerced into making single doses? I could bring it up with Anne McBride to suggest to the RWAF and see if they could investigate/coerce/apply due pressure?

Jay wrote:Is there any way that the makers of Lapinject could be coerced into making single doses? I could bring it up with Anne McBride to suggest to the RWAF and see if they could investigate/coerce/apply due pressure?

I think that a good point, Jay. Vets would probably be more willing to use Lapinject if it was available in single doses. I would imagine any reluctance on their part to use it currently would be due to the fact that they need to inject 5 bunnies in one day to make it worth opening a vial.

Certainly worth a mention to Anne maybe?

Thats a fabulous Idea Jay.

If there is anything I can do to help please let me know.

Fingers crossed little one is feeling better soon and gets that his little leggy moving again. sending nose rubs gorgeous!

I'm seeing Anne tomorrow morning, I'll show her this thread and see what she says. Will report back

Jay wrote:Is there any way that the makers of Lapinject could be coerced into making single doses? I could bring it up with Anne McBride to suggest to the RWAF and see if they could investigate/coerce/apply due pressure?

That is a good idea

Up to 50% of bunnies having adverse reactions to Cylap cannot be acceptable surely.

Up to now I have had no adverse reactions to Lapinject.

Helen, I hope Paddy is soon back to normal. Think we need some more pictures of your handsome duo

Thanks Katie

Jay - that would be brilliant, thanks!

Vanessa - I must post more pics, I've been rather lazy about doing so. Will get some on soon.

I think it's shocking frankly that up to 50% of bunnies are having adverse reactions. I don't think it's really appropriate for such a drug to retain its licence. I wish I'd been more switched on to this before they were vaccinated - I feel so guilty.

I only know of one suspected reaction to Lapinject which is a massive difference to what we hear about with Cylap. I am relieved Forte Dodge have finally admitted to the reactions though, the amount of stress, worry and expense caused by the VHD limp over the past few years is simply shocking.

Marley had a massive reaction to his VHD vaccine last year and had a massive bald patch which was red, weepy and scabby across his back. It looked like a chemical burn and we thought he may be permenantly scarred. Forte Dodge picked up the expenses for his treatment and my vets will not use Cylap anymore.

Just to say I have touched base with RWA to raise issue.

all the best

anne

None of my buns have had a reaction to date. But on the issue of the size of the Lapinject vaccine, I asked my vet to use Lapinject instead of Cylap. They checked out the situation and came back to say that it would cost me £50 for the vaccine. I took the chance and used Cylap. I will however, be monitoring the situation as Felix just had his booster and will be back to complain should he show any problems.

amcb wrote:Just to say I have touched base with RWA to raise issue.

all the best

anne

That's good to hear Anne, thanks for dropping in.

Nickie, my vets charge the same for Lapinject as they did Cylap (£17 pd) but my other vets surgery has always charged £30 pd which I think is to cover the cost of the vial on a single patient, so using any additional doses is a bonus, but either way they don't lose money.

amcb wrote:Just to say I have touched base with RWA to raise issue.

all the best

anne

Thank you for dropping in to let us know, that's great.

I'm glad I caught up with this thread. Tibbs and Peter are both due their vaccs in a couple of months and I hadn't heard about this cylap stuff - I shall definitely be checking that my vets don't use it. A 50% reaction rate is insane - if it was human medication it would never have been approved for use! In fact, I doubt they'd allow that sort of rate on "traditional" animals - I'd sue through the nose if a vaccine did that to any of our livestock!