What does this mean - Bonding

Hello

I am trying to re-bond my rabbits and I’m confused about their behaviour during a session and wondered if anyone can tell me what’s going on and what to do next, they groom each other but also want to fight!

The female seems to be giving mixed signals sometimes she will groom the male other times she refuses and pulls his face fur, sometimes he backs off other times he growls and lunges resulting in chasing and fur pulling and occasionally face to face boxing.
It’s always his fur that’s been pulled out.
This behaviour is like on a loop and carries on through out a 3 –4 hrs bonding session
She tends to always groom him after they’ve had a set to and he occasionally grooms her but only after a growling lunge episode.

I’m confused about the grooming as I always thought that was a positive.
The male always approaches head on for grooming is this the problem?

I try not to get involved but do stop it when it escalates into boxing and too much fur is pulled out.
I've been bonding for about 2 weeks and the behaviour has been the same throughout
(The re-bond is due to the male having to stay at the vets for a few days earlier in the year)

What do you experienced bonders think?

Well I must admit that bonding is the only thing about caring for Buns that I dont enjoy !!

Firstly, I assume both Buns are neutered ?
Are they being introduced in 100% neutral territory?
Before they divorced who was 'top Bun' ?

I have to pop out now but I'll check back on this thread later, meantime I am sure that more able Bunny Bonders will be on soon to offer advice

No it's not my favourite thing either

Yes both buns are neutered.
I'd say the female was Top Bun before even though she always groomed him, he only occasionally groomed her.
He was only about 8mths old when they first bonded but has matured now, she's 3.

The 100% Neutral Territory is a bit of a problem as they had the run of the house previously, once the bonding broke down I did restrict them to just one room.
I am bonding them in a pen in the kitchen at the moment they hated this room and only used to run through it briefly although the room they are in does lead off it (I thoroughly cleaned it with vinegar)

I do have other rooms they have only been in briefly but they have probably visited every room in the house at some point (this is one of those times I regret letting them have so much freedom)
What can I do?

Have you tried bonding them outdoors in a pen ?
Some people recommend taking them on a short car journey , Buns in a Pet carrier of course !! Perhaps you could try that and then on your return put them in an outdoor pen together rather than in the house.
I have also been told that not having litter trays in the bonding area means that noBun will become territorial of them. Does being the worst for territorial aggression.

I wish I were able to offer an easy solution but I fear the words 'easy' and 'bonding' seldom appear in the same sentence

I know Sooz ( Forum Admin ) has done a lot of bonding. Hopefully she'll see this thread when she's next online. But why not PM her aswell, I am sure she wont mind and she's bound to be of more help to you than I am !!

Sadly I have no useful advice as I am one of those annoying people that has either acquired pre-bonded buns (out here) or had really easy luck (over there)... I do wish you luck though and would stress the neutral territory thing as much as anything. have you tried the bathroom? A lot of people have success there

good luck!

I wonder if you may do better to wait until autumn/winter, the behaviour sounds hormonal to me and neutered rabbits still react to the change in seasons so will be harder to bond during the peak breeding season, spring & summer.

What method are you using?

Hi

Thank you for your replies, I did try the garden at one point when I first put them together but it was the same behaviour and the weather was a bit unpredictable to be consistent.

Ok I may try a car journey at the weekend, will they both be ok in the same carrier then just worry coz I can't get to them I wondered about a box but not as easy to transfer to a car.

Yes I soon got rid of the litter trays when it's been an hour or so I just pop to in for them to have a wee then take them back out

Sooz wrote:I wonder if you may do better to wait until autumn/winter, the behaviour sounds hormonal to me and neutered rabbits still react to the change in seasons so will be harder to bond during the peak breeding season, spring & summer.

What method are you using?

Hi
That did cross my mind but with her grooming him I thought it would get better

They are each in a pen side by side, the female sat with her back to him for weeks at first but they lie side by side now. It was like she was sulking with him for leaving her when he was at the vets.
I've been using the slow approach putting them together and slowly building the time up, at first things would kick off within 3 mins but we can do 3 hrs now with a few episodes in between.

I feel the female gets fed up of the male asking for grooming all the time and he is not getting the message when she says no he pushes his head right next to hers and that makes her nip. He's very relaxed though totally stretched out on the floor when he's doing it.
If he lie's next to her she will lean on him and shut her eyes.

Last night I got in the pen with them (I know I shouldn't but was fed up) and stroked her when he pushed his head at her, she did groom him then let him just lie with his head touching hers (normally she nips) after a while he got up and licked her head. I stopped it then coz we'd done 45 mins and I thought it best to end on a positive.

Thanks

It sounds more like he is in charge to me, but maybe they both want to be.

I would only do the car journey if you have someone (who isn't driving) with the buns and take an extra box/carrier just in case they need to be separated.

It hard to know when to separate and even harder not to intervene, but do they ever stop fighting on their own? I agree that spring/summer is the hardest time to bond.

Good Luck

Hi

Is that because he's asking to be groomed that he's in charge?
He never seems to pick a fight with her unless she's pulled his face fur a lot, he'd be happy to just lie next to her.
I just wonder why she doesn't turn away if she doesn't want to groom him rather than pulling his fur, bunny psyche

I'd say NO they wouldn't stop until damage had been done - but like you say it's a thin line isn't it
Once he mounted her and she bit the top of his leg (it drew blood and left a little blood blister) they were rolling on the floor together and I had to pull them apart (it happened in seconds) so I have tried to intervene before it gets to that stage again.
Thing is straight after it he went over to her and she groomed his head
Other times if he growls and lunges at her they go up on their hind legs to box and again I stop it before anything happens.

He's not scared to approach her after an episode and she nearly ALWAYS grooms him afterwards.

Sorry if I'm going on a bit, first post and all that , it's just a bit fustrating when they got on so well before and I suppose the grooming is giving me hope.
I have been thinking more and more about Sooz post regarding the hormones & Spring/Summer and it does make a lot of sense.
When would you expect the hormones to calm down, September?

Thanks
Poppy