Home
Twitter
Facebook Group
Search
Register
Log inBonding
+2
LilyGrace
Sprite
6 posters
Page 1 of 1
Bonding
by Sprite Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:13 pm
Hi all,
I need some advice on bonding my two buns.
I've had Marley since the spring... he was 1 in July. Hes generally a good tempered lil man, frankly he's happiest when eating or left to his own devices to relax, but is ok being handled etc.
Lady is our new little Rex, she's approx 13 weeks. We got her last weekend - on the day I brought her home, I put her straight into the run with Marley to let them suss each other out. To begin with I thought it was going well - they approached each other and did a lot of sniffing and nose-touching, and I thought it was all going to be very easy. Then Lady sort of tried to get past Marley and kind of scrambled directly over him, sticking a foot in his side (I'm not convinced this would have endeared her to him!) and shortly wandered off to explore the cage. It was at this point that Marley appeared to take a sudden interest in her, and lept across the cage after her - I was on hand and grabbed him before he could hurt her, but as he caught up he jumped on top of her - as if attempting naughty cuddles with her!
I scooped him up without waiting to see what happened as I didnt want to risk it, but I put him down again and the same thing happened. After a few times of this I gave up and kept them separated, with mesh down the middle of the cage letting them sniff through the wire.
I have NO experience of rabbit bonding or what is normal behaviour. So my main question is, is this leaping behaviour normal? Marley has been neutered so I cant see why he'd be trying to romance her up!! But the only alternative I can think of is that he was attacking her and had I left him would have bitten/scratched/otherwise hurt her... and its a bit worrying either way!
Shes only very small compared to him and quite thin, so I'm reluctant to just stick him in and wait to see what happens as I worry he could really hurt her very quickly. Which wouldn't help her to settle here at all.
The cage I have for them is two storey, so at the moment they are being kept seperate (I took away the ramp and covered the hole!) though I have swapped them over a few times so they get used to each other's smell. Obviously I am keen to get them in together asap as the company would be good for them and probably also they'd be warmer in together in this cold weather.
Oh, and I work Mon-Fri and its dark when I come home so its a bit of a nightmare finding time to sit with them, but tomorrow and Sunday I hope to get them into the run together and supervise contact. I do realise if this could be done daily it would be better so this might also slow progress.
Soooo. Comments on this behaviour please, and any advice/tips for how to proceed!
I need some advice on bonding my two buns.
I've had Marley since the spring... he was 1 in July. Hes generally a good tempered lil man, frankly he's happiest when eating or left to his own devices to relax, but is ok being handled etc.
Lady is our new little Rex, she's approx 13 weeks. We got her last weekend - on the day I brought her home, I put her straight into the run with Marley to let them suss each other out. To begin with I thought it was going well - they approached each other and did a lot of sniffing and nose-touching, and I thought it was all going to be very easy. Then Lady sort of tried to get past Marley and kind of scrambled directly over him, sticking a foot in his side (I'm not convinced this would have endeared her to him!) and shortly wandered off to explore the cage. It was at this point that Marley appeared to take a sudden interest in her, and lept across the cage after her - I was on hand and grabbed him before he could hurt her, but as he caught up he jumped on top of her - as if attempting naughty cuddles with her!
I scooped him up without waiting to see what happened as I didnt want to risk it, but I put him down again and the same thing happened. After a few times of this I gave up and kept them separated, with mesh down the middle of the cage letting them sniff through the wire.I have NO experience of rabbit bonding or what is normal behaviour. So my main question is, is this leaping behaviour normal? Marley has been neutered so I cant see why he'd be trying to romance her up!! But the only alternative I can think of is that he was attacking her and had I left him would have bitten/scratched/otherwise hurt her... and its a bit worrying either way!
Shes only very small compared to him and quite thin, so I'm reluctant to just stick him in and wait to see what happens as I worry he could really hurt her very quickly. Which wouldn't help her to settle here at all.
The cage I have for them is two storey, so at the moment they are being kept seperate (I took away the ramp and covered the hole!) though I have swapped them over a few times so they get used to each other's smell. Obviously I am keen to get them in together asap as the company would be good for them and probably also they'd be warmer in together in this cold weather.
Oh, and I work Mon-Fri and its dark when I come home so its a bit of a nightmare finding time to sit with them, but tomorrow and Sunday I hope to get them into the run together and supervise contact. I do realise if this could be done daily it would be better so this might also slow progress.
Soooo. Comments on this behaviour please, and any advice/tips for how to proceed!
Sprite- Junior Hopper
- Gender :
Number of posts : 106
Location : Southern England
Registration date : 2009-06-19
Re: Bonding
by LilyGrace Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:06 pm
Hmm I don't know much about this because I am yet to bond my two, but I have read and from what other people have said that it is easier when they are both neutered. So I'm not sure if it'd be better to wait until she is spayed? But there's loads of experienced bonders on here so they'll probably have more advice.
I know that when bonding, it's better to do it in neutral territory - so somewhere neither buns have been. And to do it gradually a couple of hours a day...try different places in your house, somewhere might work better than somewhere else. When my two have been around eachother - only my girl is neutered atm (they live in the same room but seperate cages) and we have had them out together twice, there is sometimes aggressive behaviour...I think when they have their tale up and their ears flat back tht is a sign of aggression...also when they grunt a lot.
I'm not sure about the humping, I know dogs still hump after they have been neutered so I'm not sure if it is the same with rabbits (possibly, seeing as they are known for it
)
I know most of that from what I've read on here though and from other sites, so I'll expect someone with real experience shall give you better advice.
I know that when bonding, it's better to do it in neutral territory - so somewhere neither buns have been. And to do it gradually a couple of hours a day...try different places in your house, somewhere might work better than somewhere else. When my two have been around eachother - only my girl is neutered atm (they live in the same room but seperate cages) and we have had them out together twice, there is sometimes aggressive behaviour...I think when they have their tale up and their ears flat back tht is a sign of aggression...also when they grunt a lot.
I'm not sure about the humping, I know dogs still hump after they have been neutered so I'm not sure if it is the same with rabbits (possibly, seeing as they are known for it
) I know most of that from what I've read on here though and from other sites, so I'll expect someone with real experience shall give you better advice
.
LilyGrace- Established Hopper
- Gender :
Number of posts : 2274
Age : 35
Location : East Sussex
Registration date : 2010-07-17
Re: Bonding
by NickieM Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:32 pm
When rabbits first meet each other, they generally try to establish who is to be top bun. What you saw was Marley trying to establish that he was boss by mounting her. It isn't sexual behaviour and is purely about dominance. It can be male on male, female on male or female on female. If you have a rabbit that is submissive and allows this to happen, you generally have an easier time. However, sometimes both rabbits want to be boss and that is when it can get a bit scary.
The general rule is that you introduce two rabbits to each other in neutral territory. By adding a strange rabbit into an existing rabbit's territory, you can provoke aggression and some rabbits will be very territorial. (My Wolfgang is particularly like this).
You aim to give them a small area so they have to interact - if the area is too big, they will go off to separate areas and generally stake a claim to a particular corner.
Some people start their buns off by popping them into a carrier and taking them for a ride in the car. Most rabbits are stressed by this and they concentrate on giving each other comfort rather than fighting.
You could bring them into your bathroom and stay and watch. Try not to interfere unless there is real aggression. Nipping, chasing and a little bit of fur pulling is normal. If your rabbits appear to ignore each other, that is a good sign as they are showing they don't regard the other as a threat.
Give them a couple of hours together if they seem happy together. You can separate them overnight and try again the next day. If the next day goes well, you can leave them together for longer - unsupervised for a little while if there has been NO scuffling.
Good luck. It is a stressful experience, but once they accept each other - and it can be quick - then it is such a relief.
The general rule is that you introduce two rabbits to each other in neutral territory. By adding a strange rabbit into an existing rabbit's territory, you can provoke aggression and some rabbits will be very territorial. (My Wolfgang is particularly like this).
You aim to give them a small area so they have to interact - if the area is too big, they will go off to separate areas and generally stake a claim to a particular corner.
Some people start their buns off by popping them into a carrier and taking them for a ride in the car. Most rabbits are stressed by this and they concentrate on giving each other comfort rather than fighting.
You could bring them into your bathroom and stay and watch. Try not to interfere unless there is real aggression. Nipping, chasing and a little bit of fur pulling is normal. If your rabbits appear to ignore each other, that is a good sign as they are showing they don't regard the other as a threat.
Give them a couple of hours together if they seem happy together. You can separate them overnight and try again the next day. If the next day goes well, you can leave them together for longer - unsupervised for a little while if there has been NO scuffling.
Good luck. It is a stressful experience, but once they accept each other - and it can be quick - then it is such a relief.
NickieM- Admin
- Gender :
Number of posts : 14530
Age : 62
Location : Elgin, Scotland
Registration date : 2008-08-13
Re: Bonding
by Sprite Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:58 pm
Thanks to both of you for the much-needed advice.
Nickie M I shall certainly try a few of the tips you've given - I am taking on board what you've both said about using neutral territory to bond them but I am a bit stuck regarding how to do this as my OH is EXTREMELY allergic and theres no way either of them can come into any room of the house. So I will have to try and think of anything else I could use as a make-shift space... regarding the pet carrier, this is definately something I could try but I worry with them both in such an enclosed space and me busy driving there could be some nasty agression? Or am I being a bit fussy?
I could certainly try them in the run together again and let the "humping" carry on to see what happens but this is not neutral ground (although I could move teh run to a totally different area if that might help?)
I think my problem is I'm a bit too sensitive
dont want to see either of them hurt even a little bit! I guess I might have to man up a bit.
Nickie M I shall certainly try a few of the tips you've given - I am taking on board what you've both said about using neutral territory to bond them but I am a bit stuck regarding how to do this as my OH is EXTREMELY allergic and theres no way either of them can come into any room of the house. So I will have to try and think of anything else I could use as a make-shift space... regarding the pet carrier, this is definately something I could try but I worry with them both in such an enclosed space and me busy driving there could be some nasty agression? Or am I being a bit fussy?
I could certainly try them in the run together again and let the "humping" carry on to see what happens but this is not neutral ground (although I could move teh run to a totally different area if that might help?)
I think my problem is I'm a bit too sensitive
dont want to see either of them hurt even a little bit! I guess I might have to man up a bit.
Sprite- Junior Hopper
- Gender :
Number of posts : 106
Location : Southern England
Registration date : 2009-06-19
KatieB- Elder Hopper
- Gender :
Number of posts : 17265
Age : 48
Location : Hampshire
Registration date : 2009-12-02
Re: Bonding
by Vince the bunny Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:49 pm
Hiya
I recently introduced Vince to Rosie and even tho' he's neutered he still humped her. She didn't seem to mind then they sat and ate some greens together. Food seems to help!
When I introduced Faline to Rosie things were a little different. I took them for a car journey first then put them in a spare pen in the back room. They nibbled food then ignored each other, then Faline tried to mount Rosie and Rosie cleared the pen . I haven't put them together since (decided to keep Rosie as an indoor bun)
I guess you just have to go with the temperment of the bun. A spray of water also helps diffuse any potential situations!
I recently introduced Vince to Rosie and even tho' he's neutered he still humped her. She didn't seem to mind then they sat and ate some greens together. Food seems to help!
When I introduced Faline to Rosie things were a little different. I took them for a car journey first then put them in a spare pen in the back room. They nibbled food then ignored each other, then Faline tried to mount Rosie and Rosie cleared the pen
. I haven't put them together since (decided to keep Rosie as an indoor bun)I guess you just have to go with the temperment of the bun. A spray of water also helps diffuse any potential situations!
Vince the bunny- Established Hopper
- Gender :
Number of posts : 2290
Age : 48
Location : Southwest
Registration date : 2010-08-09
Re: Bonding
by Sprite Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:08 pm
Thanks Katie and Vince.
Well today we made serious efforts towards the bonding!
And I think its gone well! Bearing in mind that I had lots of reservations - not having anywhere really "neutral" to do it, that she is not spayed yet, etc.
I moved the run to try and make the environment as new as possible to both of them, and put them in together. I started by taking the lid and using it to divide the run in half and make the area smaller (as Nickie mentioned!) and plopped them in. They really showed very little interest to begin with - a quick sniff then both dug in to grass-nibbling and ignored each other.
Within a few minutes Marley did approach her and start to mount her - I was hopeful after what Nickie said that she'd just allow it but unfortunately she kept trying to get away, the poor girl got it from the other direction at one point when he approached her from the front, jumped up and started humping at her head!
He did this, then left her alone a while and carried on grazing, then went back for some more, and this was repeated quite a few times. On the downside, she didnt like it at all, scrabbled to try to get away and did seem to be get quite stressed, making noises. After a while I therfore put them on either side of the divide for a while and let her have a break.
Later on they went back in together - and I have to say they've been playing very nicely together. I've made sure they have had food to eat together and at one point they were sitting pushed right up against each other side by side, it would have made a really cute photo!!
Marley seems to have lost interest in mounting her and at one point she was obviously feeling brave and went over and gave it a go herself! I was a little worried this might make things deteriorate again but it doesnt seem to have.
For the last couple hours they were together absolutely fine.
This evening when I popped her back into her top part of the cage, I decided to pop him in too and see how it went - not a thing happened, they're together in there quite happily eating their hay etc.
Sooo, my question is this. I know the advice seems to say do it very slowly but seeing as they appear to be getting on well, should I take away the divide and give them both the full cage together? Or shouldn't I risk it?
I dont feel very worried about them as even when he mounted her there was no aggression at all, no scratching, biting etc. And I wonder if separating them at this point might undo some of the good work?
But wanted to check with you guys, because if the advice is not to risk it yet I wont.
Thoughts wanted asap please as I need to separate them for the night if they shouldn't be left together!
Thanks! x
Well today we made serious efforts towards the bonding!
And I think its gone well!
Bearing in mind that I had lots of reservations - not having anywhere really "neutral" to do it, that she is not spayed yet, etc.I moved the run to try and make the environment as new as possible to both of them, and put them in together. I started by taking the lid and using it to divide the run in half and make the area smaller (as Nickie mentioned!) and plopped them in. They really showed very little interest to begin with - a quick sniff then both dug in to grass-nibbling and ignored each other.
Within a few minutes Marley did approach her and start to mount her - I was hopeful after what Nickie said that she'd just allow it but unfortunately she kept trying to get away, the poor girl got it from the other direction at one point when he approached her from the front, jumped up and started humping at her head!
He did this, then left her alone a while and carried on grazing, then went back for some more, and this was repeated quite a few times. On the downside, she didnt like it at all, scrabbled to try to get away and did seem to be get quite stressed, making noises. After a while I therfore put them on either side of the divide for a while and let her have a break.
Later on they went back in together - and I have to say they've been playing very nicely together. I've made sure they have had food to eat together and at one point they were sitting pushed right up against each other side by side, it would have made a really cute photo!!
Marley seems to have lost interest in mounting her and at one point she was obviously feeling brave and went over and gave it a go herself!
I was a little worried this might make things deteriorate again but it doesnt seem to have.For the last couple hours they were together absolutely fine.
This evening when I popped her back into her top part of the cage, I decided to pop him in too and see how it went - not a thing happened, they're together in there quite happily eating their hay etc.
Sooo, my question is this. I know the advice seems to say do it very slowly but seeing as they appear to be getting on well, should I take away the divide and give them both the full cage together? Or shouldn't I risk it?
I dont feel very worried about them as even when he mounted her there was no aggression at all, no scratching, biting etc. And I wonder if separating them at this point might undo some of the good work?
But wanted to check with you guys, because if the advice is not to risk it yet I wont.
Thoughts wanted asap please as I need to separate them for the night if they shouldn't be left together!
Thanks! x
Sprite- Junior Hopper
- Gender :
Number of posts : 106
Location : Southern England
Registration date : 2009-06-19
Re: Bonding
by Catsknickers Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:14 pm
Leave them together definately. I personally don't do the splitting up and re trying thing, I get it all done in one go! Sounds very promising.
Catsknickers- Elder Hopper
- Gender :
Number of posts : 12740
Age : 46
Location : Lincoln
Registration date : 2008-06-22 -
Re: Bonding
by Sprite Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:45 pm
Thanks Catswhiskers... I have left them together then, but have put the ramp back in so they have both storeys of their hutch (and kept the extra bed downstairs incase they decide to sleep separately)...
It seemed to be going ok when I went out to them although the hutch is now a bit of an assault course in the dark, with a ramp, extra bed, two buns and toys, food etc... and poor Lady fell head first down through the hole as she obviously didnt notice or didnt know what the ramp was
I nearly died with shock as it was quite a nasty fall, but after being dazed for a few seconds she wobbled on down the rest of the ramp and seemed to be hopping about and eating ok.
Will be a bit of a stressful worried night for me tonight, hoping I'll find everything ok when I go out to see them first thing!
Fingers crossed they play nicely guys! x
It seemed to be going ok when I went out to them although the hutch is now a bit of an assault course in the dark, with a ramp, extra bed, two buns and toys, food etc... and poor Lady fell head first down through the hole as she obviously didnt notice or didnt know what the ramp was
I nearly died with shock as it was quite a nasty fall, but after being dazed for a few seconds she wobbled on down the rest of the ramp and seemed to be hopping about and eating ok.Will be a bit of a stressful worried night for me tonight, hoping I'll find everything ok when I go out to see them first thing!
Fingers crossed they play nicely guys! x
Sprite- Junior Hopper
- Gender :
Number of posts : 106
Location : Southern England
Registration date : 2009-06-19
Re: Bonding
by Catsknickers Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:56 pm
I am sure things will be just fine. Let us know how your night is x
Catsknickers- Elder Hopper
- Gender :
Number of posts : 12740
Age : 46
Location : Lincoln
Registration date : 2008-06-22 -
Re: Bonding
by Sprite Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:52 pm
Thanks, well it's all gone well! *phew!*
They have spent the night and all day together, and although I havent been able to spend much time with them the OH tells me that today they were playing together and that Lady has been tucking her head into Marley's side to go to sleep - I guess its warm!
x
They have spent the night and all day together, and although I havent been able to spend much time with them the OH tells me that today they were playing together and that Lady has been tucking her head into Marley's side to go to sleep - I guess its warm!
x
Sprite- Junior Hopper
- Gender :
Number of posts : 106
Location : Southern England
Registration date : 2009-06-19
Re: Bonding
by NickieM Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:09 pm
That sounds really really good. The fact that they completely ignored each other straight away was a good sign.
We now need lots of photos of the happy couple.
We now need lots of photos of the happy couple.
NickieM- Admin
- Gender :
Number of posts : 14530
Age : 62
Location : Elgin, Scotland
Registration date : 2008-08-13
Catsknickers- Elder Hopper
- Gender :
Number of posts : 12740
Age : 46
Location : Lincoln
Registration date : 2008-06-22 -
LilyGrace- Established Hopper
- Gender :
Number of posts : 2274
Age : 35
Location : East Sussex
Registration date : 2010-07-17
Re: Bonding
by Sprite Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:07 pm
Thanks guys... I've kept an eye on them since they went in together, checking them for any marks or anything but they seem happy and fine Enjoying munching on food together!!
I will get some piccies of them this weekend when I have a bit more time here to watch them out in their run together xx
Enjoying munching on food together!!I will get some piccies of them this weekend when I have a bit more time here to watch them out in their run together xx
Sprite- Junior Hopper
- Gender :
Number of posts : 106
Location : Southern England
Registration date : 2009-06-19
Re: Bonding
by Catsknickers Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:08 pm
It is a relief when it is done isn't it! And nice to know they have each other x
Catsknickers- Elder Hopper
- Gender :
Number of posts : 12740
Age : 46
Location : Lincoln
Registration date : 2008-06-22 -
Page 1 of 1
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum|
|
|