'Mouldy' looking poo, - He's OK!

Since Bertie has slipped back into almost daily GI upsets, we have been having these completely random poos, that look as if they have mould or white dusting on them


When i took him to the vets last week, we took some of these with us, but she was honest & didn't know what it indicated. He's having another bout this morning, and these have arrived. As my vet has changed, I'm not 100 % confident in the new one, and feel Bertie should have had the Xray we asked for last week, He's been sent home and has been GI upset every day since, even if only for an hour. I'm taking him back tomorrow and I'll insist on the Barium X-ray, but I always like to be armed with info befor I go, so any would be helpful.
Thanks

Assuming they are fresh(ish) poos, I wonder if it's urine traces cos dried urine is sometimes white in colour ....

Lynda wrote:Assuming they are fresh(ish) poos, I wonder if it's urine traces cos dried urine is sometimes white in colour ....

That is exactly what I was going to suggest, I find poo like these a lot in my indoor bunnies cages and it's just dried calcium deposit from contact with urine.

Ask if your vet can send it off for "testing"

My (new) vet (practise) sent Lucifer's urine sample off for testing somewhere "down south" - can't quite remember where, though I think it was a university lab.

Thanks guys, that makes sense, but I'm surprised by a couple of things, 1, that I haven't seen this before the recent upsets, 2, we've cut all veg from his diet for the last 3 weeks, so his calcium levels shouldn't be high.
He's back at the vest tomorrow, I will enquire about testing etc. then.
Thanks for your replies, I feel a bit easier with it

Are you/the Vet sure Bertie's pain is GI tract related and not bladder related?
Could he actually have bladder sludge/uroliths? This can cause bouts of abdominal pain and subsequent anorexia.

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_diseases/Mech_diseases/Urolithiasis.pdf

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=pv8Ss20uQuYC&pg=RA1-PT336&lpg=RA1-PT336&dq=rabbit+urolithiasis&source=bl&ots=IKEKVyjlQe&sig=4CQImYoqW-bD9MfFsoWL2vvlhvw&hl=en&ei=8zK1SfeHMNTIjAfIhO3TBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result

Poor Bertie Bun

Poor Bertie. My hubby had a kidney stone and it is not fun. I hope he is well soon.

Jay wrote:Thanks guys, that makes sense, but I'm surprised by a couple of things, 1, that I haven't seen this before the recent upsets, 2, we've cut all veg from his diet for the last 3 weeks, so his calcium levels shouldn't be high.
He's back at the vest tomorrow, I will enquire about testing etc. then.
Thanks for your replies, I feel a bit easier with it

Most of the calcium comes from their pellets and it isn't necessarily excreted because they have a high calcium diet either, it's just the waste product. I bet you can't even detect it by touch or sight in his urine but this is left behind when it dries on a surface.

I am 99% sure it's a calcium desposit.

Thank-you for your help peeps I'm not sure what it is Jane, and I'm not sure the vet does either. Our appointment was cancelled yesterday, vet was sick, so we are going tonight, I'll bring this up and see what's said. ILast week, she said that he would have a Barium x-ray if we needed to bring him back, the article says that uroliths would show up on this, which is good. We've been so lucky with Bertie's health, and lots of things I read up when we first had him have slipped from my memory, and I feel like a complete novice all of a sudden, and completely useless

Jay wrote:Thank-you for your help peeps I'm not sure what it is Jane, and I'm not sure the vet does either. Our appointment was cancelled yesterday, vet was sick, so we are going tonight, I'll bring this up and see what's said. ILast week, she said that he would have a Barium x-ray if we needed to bring him back, the article says that uroliths would show up on this, which is good. We've been so lucky with Bertie's health, and lots of things I read up when we first had him have slipped from my memory, and I feel like a complete novice all of a sudden, and completely useless

You are not completely useless, you give Bertie everything he needs and more, this is just a hiccup, I am so sorry to hear that Bertie is not 100% but you will get the bottom of it eventually and when you do can you let me know because Frodo has had that for about 3 years on and off, it reduces when we reduce his vegetables that are higher in calcium!

Jay and Paul, you both do a fantastic job with Bertie, he is a very special little boy and has something which the majority on=f bunnies don't get in this country and that is good food, fresh hay, warmth, veterinary treatment when needed and most importantly LOVE

Let us know how Bertie goes and keep us updated

Jay wrote:. . . . . . .. and I feel like a complete novice all of a sudden, and completely useless

I've come to the conclusion Bunnies are good at doing that.

BUT, having met you, Paul and Bertie, you are doing a great job, and you are certainly not useless. You know when somethings wrong and you do something about it, and you recognise it early. Also remember, you haven't had experience of lots of rabbits or come across lots of different problems or issues like others on here have. That's why it's so good we are able to ask advice. Please don't be too hard on yourself, you are doing everything right, and you are a good bunny daddy. Bertie is a lucky bunny to have you.

Hope you get some answers tonight

thumpersmum wrote:

Jay wrote:. . . . . . .. and I feel like a complete novice all of a sudden, and completely useless

I've come to the conclusion Bunnies are good at doing that.

BUT, having met you, Paul and Bertie, you are doing a great job, and you are certainly not useless. You know when somethings wrong and you do something about it, and you recognise it early. Also remember, you haven't had experience of lots of rabbits or come across lots of different problems or issues like others on here have. That's why it's so good we are able to ask advice. Please don't be too hard on yourself, you are doing everything right, and you are a good bunny daddy. Bertie is a lucky bunny to have you.

Hope you get some answers tonight

That's what I wanted to say but you said it much better than me

Bless you both :luv:
Well, we've taken him and left him there Paul is on a critical job from 5 am, so we couldn't get him to the vets in the morning. They're going to keep an eye on him overnight, (he has his own little space away from the neuterd dogs/cats and other sick things) and he'll have a X-ray in the morning, followed by any remedial work if he needs it. He'll be home later tomorrow or Thursday, depending on what happens.

The vets were so calming and reassuring and gentle, I feel ok about it.

Any vibes for my little guy would be most welcome

Aww bless him. Mega vibes for Bertie, and anti-stress/worry vibes for you and Paul. I'm sure all will be well.

Keep us updated

He'll be fine Jay; I'm sure.

Sending vibes his way and hugs to you and Paul xx

Awwwwwww bless!, sending Bertie loads of vibes and sending you and Paul massive hugs xxxxx, hope he will soon be better and back home with you, I will say some extra special prayers for him as well xx

Loads of vibes for Bertie, I hope all goes well with him.

And loads of hugs for you and Paul, Jay xxx

Big hugs and noserubs to you, Paul and Bertie. Hope he makes a swift recovery and you all get back to normal. Healing vibes on the way.

I'm so sorry Jay, what a worry for you. Don't doubt yourself - you are a great bunny dad. Something like this just shakes your confidence.

Sending huge vibes for Bertie and I'll be thinking about him - do update us when you have news xx

Jay wrote:Bless you both :luv:
Well, we've taken him and left him there Paul is on a critical job from 5 am, so we couldn't get him to the vets in the morning. They're going to keep an eye on him overnight, (he has his own little space away from the neuterd dogs/cats and other sick things) and he'll have a X-ray in the morning, followed by any remedial work if he needs it. He'll be home later tomorrow or Thursday, depending on what happens.

The vets were so calming and reassuring and gentle, I feel ok about it.

Any vibes for my little guy would be most welcome

I know how worried about Bertie you and Paul are. I am sending millions of vibes for Bertie Bunster :luv:

Sending huuuuuuge amounts of vibes for Bertie. XXXX

Thank-you all so much for your vibes and wishes, they have worked a treat! :luv:

I've had a call from the Big Cheese vet, to say that Bertie won't be having X-rays today. The vet who saw him last week wasn't in, so they had to do another pre-treatment examination, a guy called James did it, who we've seen before and is very thorough.
He's given a diagnosis of backed up compacted poo in the Cecum, probably caused through a general slow down of gut mobility since the plant poisoning. He should really have had his gut mobility more closely monitored, and we are to be given liquid paraffin, Bio-lapis and I have to get some Pineapple juice. Obviously we'll get more info when we collect him.

I've also requested a meeting with the big cheese as I have some questions about the last consultation he had. If that vet had been there today, Bertie would have had a day of X-rays, which could have been avoided if he'd had a more thorough examination, which is why we took him. He was OK about the meeting, said he understood, which makes me feel better.

Paul's home at 12, so we'll collect him then. I'm so relieved he doesn't have to have Barium and sedatives etc. , but unsure as to what will happen next.

He's back at home. We had a very interesting meeting with the Senior vet and James. They explained exactly what the problem was, even let us feel the compacted poo, it's quite a size and hard. I expressed my concerns about the previous consultation, and more importantly that we shouldn't be in the position where 2 vets come up with a different prognosis which could have potentially fatal consequences for Bertie. I asked if the other vet had received further education for small and exotic animals, and they confirmed that she haden't. It was also confirmed that there were 2 vets in that day who did have a lot more experience of buns, and they were very understanding of our disappointment that Bertie hadn't been seen by James or the other, when this was so possibly related to his previous poisoning and gut mobility, and needed a more experienced pair of hands.

It was handled tactfully and without a raised voice etc, and we have been assuired that we will always be allocated a bunny savvy vet in future for anything more than a jab. They both said that it's not often that they get owners who know so much about the workings of a bun and the expectations of a vet in relation to Rabbit care. I couldn't take the credit for that and they were interested to hear about the level of experience here on the forum

We're not out of the woods by a long shot, this compacted poo is about the size of a slightly squashed golf ball, and is hard, so he's having 1ml of liquid paraffin, 1 ml of Pineapple juice and a sachet of Bio-Lapis a day for the next week, then he goes back to see if that has loosened it up. They said that surgery is a last resort as he will be unlikely to have a healthy digestion for the rest of his life after that, so we're trying to shift it this way.
They warned me that the poos might come out runny, but not to worry unless there is Diarrheoa (sp) in which case we should call them and reduce the Paraffin.

Thanks everyone for your help and wishes so far, I feel much better knowing what we're dealing with and James has shown me exactly what to look for when I feel his cecum, so I feel a bit empowered to help Bertie, which is good.

That's good news Jay, and well done to senior vet James for listening and explaining and well done to you for instigating it. It took us here a long while to find a vet who would actually 'talk' to us and work with us but it works out better not only for us and the vet, but also other less knowledgeable bunny owners because the information is investigated and passed on, supply and demand has helped this progression I suppose.

When I had my first buns, the vet steadfastly refused to administer painkiller and I knew this couldn't be right, so I had to search the practices in the area to find one that did. Thank goodness rabbit treatment has improved from then.

Nose rubs being sent for Bertie and hugs for you and Paul xxx

Well done Jay