Questions about these potential babies!

Lets pretend for a minute that we live in an ideal world... (I know, it's almost impossible to imagine ) and these 4 babies I mentioned are 2 boys and 2 girls.

What would you take? 2 girls? A boy and a girl? I know 2 boys can be extra difficult so I've ruled that out already.

Watch it be a litter of 4 boys

If I go for boy/girl do they HAVE to be separated for a while before the boy is ready for neutering? All I know is boys are ready earlier. I'm quite worried about ending up with a million bunnies

Next thing! If, as I suspect, Dave and Saacha (mum and dad) are indeed brother and sister, do I need to be concerned? Are the babies going to be weak? Or wonky? Or both?

I read via google that rabbits can be bred with any relation (of the opposite sex obviously lol) but should not be bred with siblings? This has concerned me somewhat.

Any feelings on this?

Thank you

I am assuming that the rescue do not know what relation they are to each other - Dave may have accidentally mated with his mother, this happens a lot. If they are all boys you could offer to take a boy and a neutered Saacha. Otherwise I would say take a boy and a girl. A friend of mine very successfully took siblings and kept them separated by pen panels until the ops. You can bring them home together then and hopefully the recovery period will recement their bond.

I never thought to ask the rescue about the relationship between Dave and Saacha. I will ask them next time I talk to them.

If they are brother and sister, will the babies be ok?

I have actually thought about possibly Saacha and a boy if they are all boys. Great minds

I'm curious why you would opt for boy/girl over girl/girl. Is there a massive difference in the relationship between the two options? Or is it more just a personal choice? I have no idea

Thank you

Boy girl is considered to be the best potential bond - there are no sexual territory issues, hormonally they will complement each other (hopefully).

A lot of vets are now starting to spay at 16weeks if the bunny is over 1kg. Its what my vet done with Florence, and talking to the rescue about it apparently its some new recommendation that's come from somewhere. Not sure how commonplace it is yet, but it might mean that the girl made be able to be "done" first, if not at the same time.

As I've said before, at the rescue there was a male who mated with his mum and the babies were fine. I imagine brother sister matings happen more than we'd like to think. If there were any major problems I imagine they'd show up early, not 100% sure on that though. I know plecs aren't meant to mate with relatives as they can hatch with one eye and no fins and stuff, but I know that's not helpful.

For some reason, the rescue I got Dougal from recommends girl boy pairing first, then boy boy. If you want I'll email them and ask their take on it?

Chances are there will be a mix in the litter. But bear in mind too, the sexing done at 6 weeks may be wrong as they are so tidly, so you may make a decision but end up with something else anyway

I have to say, if I was getting two from a litter my ideal would be two of the same sex, just to alleviate any possible risk from mating. Even if you are ultra careful, there is still a chance of them managing it. But that's just because I'm a worrier.

What colour is Saacha? Does she look very much like Dave?

Boy / girl if possible - we've found that's what works best amongst our eleven. We do have one bigger group with Smudge and three girls, but there is definitely more bickering amongst them and they do have to have the most space. Having said that, when I was bonded with Rosie and Molly we were all very close, but I think that is unusual.

I think that if the kits have survived babyhood healthy and well with no obvious problems, there should be no need to worry about their parents possibly being related. Although that sort of line-breeding is obviously not ideal, I would think that a certain amount of it must occur even in the wild...

cheryl'n'bruce'flo wrote:Boy girl is considered to be the best potential bond - there are no sexual territory issues, hormonally they will complement each other (hopefully).

Thank you

It's actually just come to me that both Saacha and Dave's cards in the centre say they are 1 year old, although the website says Dave is 2-3 so don't know what's going on there.

icedancer wrote:A lot of vets are now starting to spay at 16weeks if the bunny is over 1kg. Its what my vet done with Florence, and talking to the rescue about it apparently its some new recommendation that's come from somewhere. Not sure how commonplace it is yet, but it might mean that the girl made be able to be "done" first, if not at the same time.

As I've said before, at the rescue there was a male who mated with his mum and the babies were fine. I imagine brother sister matings happen more than we'd like to think. If there were any major problems I imagine they'd show up early, not 100% sure on that though. I know plecs aren't meant to mate with relatives as they can hatch with one eye and no fins and stuff, but I know that's not helpful.

For some reason, the rescue I got Dougal from recommends girl boy pairing first, then boy boy. If you want I'll email them and ask their take on it?

Chances are there will be a mix in the litter. But bear in mind too, the sexing done at 6 weeks may be wrong as they are so tidly, so you may make a decision but end up with something else anyway

I have to say, if I was getting two from a litter my ideal would be two of the same sex, just to alleviate any possible risk from mating. Even if you are ultra careful, there is still a chance of them managing it. But that's just because I'm a worrier.

What colour is Saacha? Does she look very much like Dave?

Thank you for your take on this too

I guess I should phone my vet and see what their procedure is on spaying and neutering. Thank you for the offer to contact your rescue but it's ok, I will chat to the rabbit man on the phone again. He is never there at th weekend and I can't get there during the week

Hmm... Of course you are right about the sexing not being an exact science at 6 weeks. Hadn't thought of that. Like you, I'd feel so bad if I accidentally let them breed. There's enough bunnies going homeless in this country without me contributing

Saacha and Dave look very much alike, only she is a little bit smaller.

Hmmm, it does sound like they could be related then doesn't it. It's not like Dave is a lionhead or mini-lop where they all look similar, but as Sparky says, I'm sure if there was something up with them it would have shown up by now.

Dave


Saacha

Are they sure Dave is the daddy? Those babies do not look like their parents.

The little tan one is a gorgeous colour

But good point Cheryl, Dave and Saacha are the same colour, the babies are a bit different. But sooo cute

I didn't know if this was normal. You know how 2 black labs can make a yellow lab? I thought this could maybe happen with buns too?

There are 2 that are the same colour as Dave and Saacha and then there's the random black and tan ones. I'm baffled.

Here's one of all 4 babies.

I think because of genetics there can be throw backs to different colours, but the tan one is so different! But then I like different.

Are there any particular two you have your eye on?

I have found this on agouti genetics - 'The Agouti Pattern A
The Agouti gene set has three possible genes. They are list in order of dominance: A, at and a. The A gene is the typical wild rabbit color pattern. Rabbits with this gene would have white bellies, white eye circles and white on the underside of the tail. The individual hairs on a rabbit possessing the A gene will have color bands. If you blow on the back of the rabbit you will see circular bands of color, this is a result of this gene.

The at gene is known as the tan pattern. In order for this gene to display in the rabbit the second gene must either be an at or and a.If the second gene is an A (Agouti) the rabbit will carry the at but will show the A (agouti) since the A (Agouti) is dominant. The tan (at) gene has the same overall pattern as an Agouti. The belly will be white, the rabbit will have white eye circle, and the under side of the tail will be white. However, the individual hairs will not have color bands, but will be all one color.

The a gene is known as the self gene. Since this is the most recessive gene, the rabbit must have two a’s in the gene set to show this pattern (aa). With this gene the rabbit will be one color throughout their body, and the individual hairs will be one color.'

So I guess the black and the tan buns have the recessive genes.

When I was young and at boarding school 'my' rabbit, a calafornian, escaped and came back pregnant. She had 2 agouti babies and 2 black. So it certainly does not follow that babies have to look like parents. I just thought it must be fairly rare for 2 agouti buns to have 2 recessive coloured babies in one litter.

Maybe Saacha had an affair with the milkbun but didn't let on to Dave about it

I agree with cheryl - No they dont look like their parents do they....could dave be her son also?

I tell you what - what a bunch of cuteness. I am a little bit in love with Dave.

cheryl'n'bruce'flo wrote:I have found this on agouti genetics - 'The Agouti Pattern A
The Agouti gene set has three possible genes. They are list in order of dominance: A, at and a. The A gene is the typical wild rabbit color pattern. Rabbits with this gene would have white bellies, white eye circles and white on the underside of the tail. The individual hairs on a rabbit possessing the A gene will have color bands. If you blow on the back of the rabbit you will see circular bands of color, this is a result of this gene.

The at gene is known as the tan pattern. In order for this gene to display in the rabbit the second gene must either be an at or and a.If the second gene is an A (Agouti) the rabbit will carry the at but will show the A (agouti) since the A (Agouti) is dominant. The tan (at) gene has the same overall pattern as an Agouti. The belly will be white, the rabbit will have white eye circle, and the under side of the tail will be white. However, the individual hairs will not have color bands, but will be all one color.

The a gene is known as the self gene. Since this is the most recessive gene, the rabbit must have two a’s in the gene set to show this pattern (aa). With this gene the rabbit will be one color throughout their body, and the individual hairs will be one color.'

So I guess the black and the tan buns have the recessive genes.

When I was young and at boarding school 'my' rabbit, a calafornian, escaped and came back pregnant. She had 2 agouti babies and 2 black. So it certainly does not follow that babies have to look like parents. I just thought it must be fairly rare for 2 agouti buns to have 2 recessive coloured babies in one litter.

That boggled my brain that did I'll read it again tomorrow with a fresh head

Katieb wrote:I agree with cheryl - No they dont look like their parents do they....could dave be her son also?

I tell you what - what a bunch of cuteness. I am a little bit in love with Dave.

I don't think so Katie because both their cards at the centre say they are both 1 year old.

He is a darling but waaay too destructive for a house bun. Must be why they've advised he be an outdoor bun I swear, he had trashed the place!!!

there so cute,i love the tan one,is that one on its own? my original 2 that i was going to have was spike and an orange one but she died,so picked snowflake instead

fall3n-ang3l wrote:there so cute,i love the tan one,is that one on its own? my original 2 that i was going to have was spike and an orange one but she died,so picked snowflake instead

Aww that's so sad

No, it is in with them but it obviously didn't feel like coming out to play When I first got there the 4 of them were snuggled up sleeping.

I've been up half the night because I kept having nightmares about Thumper dying so I'm really not sure what to do for the best

its just your conscious playing tricks on you. When something is in your mind you're more likely to dream about it, which isn't good when its something unpleasant.

Try and stop being so hard on yourself, or you'll just go crazy. I know that's easier said than done though. Thumper will always be with you, and will always be a massive part of you, but that doesn't mean you have to stop yourself from loving another pet

icedancer wrote: its just your conscious playing tricks on you. When something is in your mind you're more likely to dream about it, which isn't good when its something unpleasant.

Try and stop being so hard on yourself, or you'll just go crazy. I know that's easier said than done though. Thumper will always be with you, and will always be a massive part of you, but that doesn't mean you have to stop yourself from loving another pet

Thanks Carla. It just b****y horrible. It's like losing her all over again. The brain is a mean thing! One minute in my dreams, she's alive and well and then she's gone. Again. It's always similar to how it really happened too

I wonder if you had a new focus then your brain would be busy with something else and the dreams would stop. I don't necessarily mean new bunnies, it could be a new hobby or something. Just to try and stop the thoughts a little.

But it probably is because you're feeling guilty about thinking of getting new bunnies. When really you've got nothing to feel guilty about. Thumper won't be unhappy, she had a great life and would be happy that two other bunnies would experience that great life too

icedancer wrote:I wonder if you had a new focus then your brain would be busy with something else and the dreams would stop. I don't necessarily mean new bunnies, it could be a new hobby or something. Just to try and stop the thoughts a little.

But it probably is because you're feeling guilty about thinking of getting new bunnies. When really you've got nothing to feel guilty about. Thumper won't be unhappy, she had a great life and would be happy that two other bunnies would experience that great life too

agree with this

Thumper2001 wrote:

icedancer wrote: its just your conscious playing tricks on you. When something is in your mind you're more likely to dream about it, which isn't good when its something unpleasant.

Try and stop being so hard on yourself, or you'll just go crazy. I know that's easier said than done though. Thumper will always be with you, and will always be a massive part of you, but that doesn't mean you have to stop yourself from loving another pet

Thanks Carla. It just b****y horrible. It's like losing her all over again. The brain is a mean thing! One minute in my dreams, she's alive and well and then she's gone. Again. It's always similar to how it really happened too

Those dreams are always tough. I've had them - it's like nothing has happened in your dream, they are still there and then you wake up and realise

I'm not helping matters here, but I too am slightly in love with Dave

icedancer wrote:I wonder if you had a new focus then your brain would be busy with something else and the dreams would stop. I don't necessarily mean new bunnies, it could be a new hobby or something. Just to try and stop the thoughts a little.

But it probably is because you're feeling guilty about thinking of getting new bunnies. When really you've got nothing to feel guilty about. Thumper won't be unhappy, she had a great life and would be happy that two other bunnies would experience that great life too

People keep telling me to get a hobby but there's nothing I want to do! I used to read books like they were going out of fashion but I can't even get into them. My friend tried to get me to take up baking/cooking I have a pretty bad relationship with food so that was a no no

As for going out and doing something, can't be ar*sed. I haven't got much in the way of energy after a full days work. And I have no talent like some of you guys with your skating, sewing, jewellery making and drawing

All I'm good at is gawking at this phone!

I've been having these dreams on and off since she died but they had kind of eased off a bit