Cylap

Called the vets.. They said they ARE aware of the contravesy re cylap, but in their experiance its less than 50%, and they havent had a rabbit develop symtoms as severe as felix before. They have offered for me to take them in to be checked over, and said that they could if needed give felix pain relief but it could counter-act the cylap making her have to go through the jab process again. I must say i feel really let down. They said they are in the process of deciding to switch to anivac. Part of me wants them to see felix and what this drug has done, and part of me think thinks that the car journey and attending the vets again is the opposite of what they both need right now. Felix seems better, but if im concerned when i get home i may request a home visit, under the circumstances i feel its a warranted request. ?

I think see how Felix is tonight hun, when daisy had the problem he was fine after a couple of days, but if you are at all worried take him in. I find it odd that they said that pain meds would interfere with the Vaccine, but Im no expert.

The fact that they already know about anivac is a step in the right direction, and shows that they are keeping up with developments but still, i do think they should have warned you about the adverse side effects. I would guess that it prob does affect 50% of buns but some owners just dont notice or dont bother checking with the vets.


Keep us updated about how she is, Sending her cuddles x x x

I'm sorry to hear Felix is no better, when Gypsy started with his limp after his Cylap vaccine he was quite bad walking on it and we did take him back to the vet's for a check up and she apologised as she said she might have caught a nerve.....makes you wonder now! Gypsy limped for a few days and then he was right as rain after.

Hope Felix will soon improve sending noserubs for her xxxxxxxx

Oh bless her, I am sending lots of love and healing vibes.

Hugs

Jo xx

The 50% figure is for smaller contraindications, that many owners may not even realise have happened, and that is possibly why your vet has less reports. If a childs bunny (for eg) goes back in a hutch straight afterwards, it could easily get a lump at the point of insertion, or a scab - both could easily go undetected. The limp is a more serious side effect, and affects less bunnies. Anivac has yet to demonstrate any side effects (AFAIK), because it is not suspended in mineral oil, but in a water solution.

My vet told me that if you accidentally self injected Cylap, it was pretty bad - a big lump and much soreness.

Thanks guys x Just got in and after putting them on cage rest today, they were eager to get out and zoom around! Willow is back on form, Felix seems almost there, still a bit tentative on that leg but at least putting it down, she looks like she has control over it- i am waiting for her to try and pull down her right ear and groom it, i will know the legs ok when she can do that. Phew! Thank goodness! Been worried to death today, im sure i said 'logamorph' instead of 'oramorph' to a room full of midwives! Oh well, for 2 pins i could have walked in there with a cage and 2 fluffs chomping hay x
Jay, just saw ur msg as i was writting this- makes a lot of sense how people could miss it depending on the interaction they have with their bunnies. As these two are in the house we have a really good idea what to expect from them and when, thanks so much for all ur help x As i write this willow has her head in my lunch bag that i chucked on the floor when we got in, seems she has found my apple! Will confiscate and replace with din dins, thats my little toad ;-)

Really glad they are feeling better this eve hun. Nothing like bunny worry is there, so I expect you are feeling better too.

Give them a cuddle from me x x

I've just seen this and your other thread - sorry to hear that you have had problems. I'm really glad to hear the bunnies are getting back on form.

I'm yet another person who's had a bun who has reacted badly to Cylap. Paddy had the vaccine a year ago and developed a limp and a bald spot. It's quite alarming when it happens! Thankfully it did clear up in a couple of days and he was as right as rain.

I complained to my vet (who was very embarrassed) and they had always used Cylap and said they'd never had a problem reported to them before. But, as others have mentioned, I wonder how many bunnies do develop a problem and it just goes unnoticed because they are in a hutch, or they don't get much attention.

Anyway, because of our experience, our vets have changed over to Anivac. Paddy has his first Anivac injection a couple of weeks ago and I'm pleased to report suffered no ill-effects.

Hope Felix and Willow continue to improve.

Maybe we should all go to our vets and ask if they have considered changing from Cylap to Anivac and explain the reasons why. As people have said, if no-one reports it because no-one either notices or thinks it is a problem, then the vets won't be concerned. The company are obviously sufficiently concerned and probably want to protect themselves legally and financially by printing the disclaimer. I believe that they were covering the extra vet costs when animals reacted badly. I wonder if they are still doing that now that this disclaimer has been updated.

Maybe it is time we mustered bunny power and brought this to their attention. Even better what about campaigning to the Royal College of Vet Surgeons. It is so obviously best practice to use a vaccine that (a) is less harmful to the animals; and (b) is less harmful to the person administering it.

Could this be an article for Hopping Mad?

I will be complaining to the company, and any higher i can find contact details for on behalf of felix and i think it could only be a good thing if others did the same. The thing with this disclaimer is that the vets may be sent it along with the viles, but i was shown no such thing, not even a mention that there could be side effects, so i think it is useless if the person responsible for the rabbits well being isnt given the information to make an informed choice. To my embarrasment there has been\is an article in hopping mad about cylap, and i read some of it some wks ago when it didnt apply to my 2 as they were too young to have the vaccine, and as i have over loaded my brain on rabbit info in the last 2 mnths it didnt stick. I do feel that there are certain things i would like take for granted from a vet, one being that they know more about vetinary drugs than me. I understand now that rabbits are classed as an exotic pet and that the level of knowledge the members of this forum have exceeds that of ur average vet whose passion and experiance may be other species. I wish i had video'd felix limping about, i didnt think of it at the time, i was too worried she was going to develop these awfull swellings and welts i have seen online. I do want my money back from the manufacterer, because i really dont want to be a part of them turning a profit and continuing to sell this drug. Currently im just so relieved she is ok, and willow too, i can be rational and write a balanced complaint, saturday and sunday i was absolutley livid.

NickieM wrote:Maybe it is time we mustered bunny power and brought this to their attention. Even better what about campaigning to the Royal College of Vet Surgeons. It is so obviously best practice to use a vaccine that (a) is less harmful to the animals; and (b) is less harmful to the person administering it.

Could this be an article for Hopping Mad?

having covered it is small depth in the last issue, we could take it further and get a petition together, and maybe am on-line survey? Good suggestion, I'll talk to the powers that be and see what they think

As i reflect on the conversation i had with the vet yesterday i feel more and more dissatisfied. In many ways, telling me that they are aware of the reports into cylap, and that they are considering moving over to anivac at the time they jabbed my two with it is worse than not being aware of the problem. Thats like saying they recognise there is an issue, but lets get rid of this stock first. Negligant at best, and irresponsible at worst. She also said 'well the limp should go in 48hrs' in a somewhat defensive tone, that is 48hrs too long!! If felix developed a problem that meant she was disabled so be it, its the fact that this was caused by this drug that was supposed to protect her! She went in in perfect health. Ok, enough ranting on my part, let it go, cool calming waters, tweeting birds, rainbows, ahhh and relax ;-)

My vets did change vaccine after Marley had a bad reaction to Cylap. He developed a terrible chemical burn due to the preservative oil in the vaccine and for some time it was debatable whether or not he would be permanently scarred.


Please make sure your vets report the reaction to Forte Dodge (the manufacturers) as it is only by this that they are made aware of how widespread the problem it. As an aside, Forte Dodge will also usually cover all treatment costs relating to a side effect from the vaccine.

Jay wrote:

NickieM wrote:Maybe it is time we mustered bunny power and brought this to their attention. Even better what about campaigning to the Royal College of Vet Surgeons. It is so obviously best practice to use a vaccine that (a) is less harmful to the animals; and (b) is less harmful to the person administering it.

Could this be an article for Hopping Mad?

having covered it is small depth in the last issue, we could take it further and get a petition together, and maybe am on-line survey? Good suggestion, I'll talk to the powers that be and see what they think

I think that is a brilliant Idea! Bunny Power!

Well two of our buns went for check ups today and Mike told our vet that we did not want to use cylap anymore and she agreed that she wasn't happy using it and is hoping to use a new one called 'Anivac' as it's suppose to be a lot safer for rabbit's.

This is great news, I am so glad they are better.

Hugs

Jo xx

Good idea about HM! My OH rang the vets today to ask about theirs, they use cylap and when he asked if they could order in Anivac for us and explained why she just said "well we've never had any problems with it or we wouldn't be using it" and he said "yeah but can you order in anivac"...and she told him to ring tomorrow to find out as she doesn't know about ordering stuff I think it's quite bad that they aren't even aware of the problem, I thought it was quite well known since I had read about it on here - it's not like the information is hard to get hold of. I just don't understand why the people dealing with these vaccines have no clue about the problems which occur. If they won't order it in, I will be ringing up a different vets practice to find out what they use/if they'll order it for us! I think we have every right to request it as I don't want to even risk the small chance of that happening to my babies!

Most people tend to trust their vets and accept everything they say. It does take a bit of courage to actually ask questions and challenge what they say.

When my buns were due last time it was just after Anivac had made its appearance, I phoned my vet surgery to make the appointment and asked specifically for that vaccine. They said absolutely nothing about it and the vet I usually see asked me why. I told them about the revamped disclaimer and they were shocked. I don't know if they still use Cylap, but they won't use it on my buns from now on!

I also asked today when I had Felix in with an abscess if they could use Septrin. Vet went off and checked it up and came back saying it was an excellent idea. They had enough faith in me to teach me to inject myself to save me taking him in every day. The vet told the nurse that I was the best rabbit owner he had known. Not strictly true, but it shows that if you show a bit of knowledge and are prepared to ask questions, you and your buns can get a lot out of your vets.

That gives me a bit more confidence to keep pushing for this! I'm at work tomorrow, so I'm going to print out info for my OH to read, so he's more clued up when he rings them again. I guess if no1 has reported problems to them when they have happened, they may be confused as to why we want a different vaccine. Your vets sound brilliant though, it's great they listen to things you say and check them out etc.

It doesn't matter if they don't feel Cylap is a problem. At the end of the day, YOU are the client and if you request Anivac, then they should order it in. My vets asked that I give them a week's notice so they could get it which was fine by me. If your vets are difficult or won't do it, you might need to think about changing vets.

My vets are very very good to me. It has taken a couple of years to build up a relationship but they are so helpful - not particularly rabbit savvy - but willing to go that extra mile and they have a genuine care for their patients.

The only thing you may find with the Anivac is it is going to cost you more because when they order a drug in specifically for a particular client you are often required to purchase the whole vial/bottle. I am not sure how many vaccines are contained in an Anivac vial, or what the shelf-life is.

Certainly when I was using Depocillin & Oxytetracycline I had to buy the whole 100ml bottles, and because they were controlled drugs I couldn't even take the bottles home with me! So the vets stored them in their drugs locker for me, clearly labelled with my name.

Anyway, my point is, they are usually willing to do this if it is not incurring an extra cost to the practice.

Anivac comes in 10 individual doses AFAIK. John said it's the cheapest of the 3, but as you say, if a practice is going to order it in especially, they may charge more for it, so prob best to check how much it will be.

I think that the more people ask for it, the better, as clearly some vets don't know it exists, but this shouldn't nec. be at the expense of your pocket!

Ah...I thought it might only be Lapinject I'd have to pay a lot more for :/...maybe I should just ring around other vets and see if they use anivac already...I don't think I can afford to pay for ten doses of it. I'll see what they say today.

You inly pay more for lapinject if the 5 doses in the one vial can't be used in one day. As Anivac is in 10 individual dose vials, the vets will be able to use the rest on other buns, so I guess it's up to them whether they'd charge for the rest or not, worth asking

May be worth telling your vets that Anivac is cheaper to buy in order to get them to switch. Anything to boost profit margins.