Violent bunny towards new arrival

Hi, my first attempt at this post didn't work, so I'll try again.

Basically, we've had Radar since the beginning of the year, he's probably about 9/10 months now. He's always been our house bun and always had total free roam. He currently takes over the living room. 99% of the time he's a wuss, but will show affection if so the feeling strikes him.
At the weekend we got a new arrival, Splash, his sister/niece from another litter (rabbits eh!?) with the intention of giving him some company (we work full time). She's 1/2 months old and meek, she's used to other buns being around and is getting use to human touch.
We're new to bunny ownership, and since Sunday it would seem everything we've done has been wrong. Events have unfolded that are distressing, let me explain:

Sunday night we place her, in cage, in the living room with the intention of her smell radiating a bit so the smells would become slightly familiar. Radar spends a lot of time pooing around the cage, taking sniffs, etc.
The following evening I get in from work, open the cage side and leave them to some tentative sniffing. Quickly this becomes a bout of 3 boxing matches, but I left them to it and it soon stopped. Radar wanders off to eat (perfectly usual behaviour since he eats ALL the time) and she leaves it about half an hour before leaving the cage.
Out she comes to browse around, get used to the surroundings etc. Radar spots her, tail goes up, ears go forward, he growls, charges and pins her at the neck still growling and taking the occasional nibble. I push him away because she's scared rigid and quite literally half his size. He goes for me in the same way, and then repeats the process on her.
It was heartbreaking to watch because he's always so meek! We lock him in his cage and cuddle her for a bit, then let her have free roam, since she's been cooped up for 24 hours. Each time she goes towards his cage he boxes at the bars and charges the walls. She's not that bothered at this point but he's not happy.

I did a bit of research yesterday and have since learned that everything I did was wrong in every way! Can anybody help? I'm not used to seeing him like this, and I'm genuinely afraid that he'll try to kill her if we do that again. But I don't want to re-home her because she's lovely. At the moment he's back in the living room and she's taken over our landing.

Cheers
Bob

Don't worry, it's quite normal, but there's a couple of things you need to be aware of. Firstly, this is Radar's home. He has been the only bun there, and rabbits can be quite territorial, until they accept the other rabbit.

Is he neutered? Splash isn't speyed, and this could also be a problem, whether he is neutered or not.

The behaviour you've seen in Radar is normal rabbit behaviour, and you're not the first owner who's seen their placid happy bun turn into a monster in the presence of another rabbit - domestication has not altered their behaviour at all, just their looks, so you effectively have a couple of wild animals in your care.

I wouldn't attempt to bond them just yet, but would let them have smelling access to each other. For a successful domestic bond, ideally both rabbits should be neutered. Radar can be done asap if he isn't already, and Splash can be speyed from 6 months old.

This removes the hormones from the equation, and they stand a better chance of bonding. It's also in both their interests, as he will behave the way you have seen, and she could become aggressive, when she matures. Females also stand a very high chance of getting uterine cancer if not altered.

When she's speyed, her scent will change also, so even if you do successfully bond them at this point, that bond will be vulnerable after speying, as he may not recognise her any more.

I would keep a room for her that she can have exercise access to also, or a pen outside her cage that she can hop around in, and have visual and smell access to Radar.

Once they are both altered, then we'll help you with you with the bond. We made a video of rabbit bonding for our on-line e-zine, Hopping mad (www.hoppingmad.org) which you can see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7qraiZ8g6M

Bonding can be complex, but I would say that the more negative things happen at this point, the less the chances of success, so I would leave it until you've eliminated the hormones, as these are the biggest obstacle.

Hope that helps, and I'm sure you'll get some more advice too

Cheers.

We had him done in August.
She's not been spayed yet, but its something we'll be doing because we want long living, happy healthy bunnies. Would you suggest sticking to the original plan then? Let her have an hour or so free roam in the living room whilst he's caged, and then take her back to the landing?

Sure, it will get her scent around the place, and get him used to being there. However, if it's really stressing him out, then I wouldn't push it. She can have exercise area upstairs, or you could put a pen around her cage, but she will need to have exercise and human access, be that in a room, with the door shut, or a pen.

Cheers. We'll go with this for a while.
Some sites suggest putting them in the back of a car, as its a neutral space. We've got an estate so there's space, but I wouldn't fancy trying to drive them anywhere.

bobtek85 wrote:Cheers. We'll go with this for a while.
Some sites suggest putting them in the back of a car, as its a neutral space. We've got an estate so there's space, but I wouldn't fancy trying to drive them anywhere.

yeah, this is called forced bonding, (when you drive them around in the same carrier) and creates a stressful situation that induces the rabbits to comfort each other. It's ok as a last resort, but shouldn't be used as an introduction, because the rabbits haven't become friends/learnt to tolerate each other. Its the weakest bond you can create. However, when you are ready to go, you can create those stressful situations at home just by putting the hoover around the cage whilst they are together, they will comfort each other because they are slightly scared.

A lot of people use the bath tub, with a towel on the bottom, as it's a neutral space, and more importantly it's small. If buns have the chance to run away from each other, a lot will, and will avoid the opportunity to bond...you'd never think the were social creatures !

I wouldn't even think about trying to bring them together at the mo, for all the reasons above. Just enjoy them for the next few momths, and then when they are ready, you can do the bond - which must be in rabbit time - not when you want it to be

Splash will need a few weeks after her spey to eliminate her hormones completely, and to recover properly, it's quite a big op.

Jay has given you some excellent advice there. I would just the importance of neutral territory and taking time. Remember that Splash is very young and not ready for male attention. I bonded a young doe to my buck and it took 6 quite tense months. She kept spooking and attacking him when he was just trying to go through the motion. But they have been devoted to each other for 3 1/2 years now. You have to sort of go with what works for them. The car thing works by stressing them, but this can be done in smaller ways - hoover when they are together, put the radio on on a station that they would not normally hear you play (different voices different music). In the mean time if you can set up a run for Splash in the living room then it will give Radar and her the chance to get use to each other's presence. Don't attempt bonding until any aggression shown through the run bars has stopped. There are other tricks you can do during this time such as swapping their litter trays around so they get used to each others scent. It will be frustrating for you for a while, but it is so rewarding to see 2 well bonded buns interacting and playing.

You need to be very patient. They have had an unfortunate start and Radar will be feeling quite miffed that this intruder has come into HIS house - even you are visitors there you know!

I would echo everything Jay has said and would suggest the bathroom as a good place to initiate bonding which the time comes. It is usually a small room and has washable floor coverings, plus the bunnies won't have been in there so it will be neutral territory.

Once Splash has been spayed and is ready for bonding, we will support you to do this.

In the meantime, show us your buns!

Hello again.
Well last night was interesting. We set her cage up in't living room, with a caged off area to roam in, with her towel n toy.
His immediate reaction was of growling and aggression, cage rattling etc. He got a couple of nibbles in too.
However as the night progressed she chilled out and he wandered off. He was still trying to get at her, whilst at the same time chilling out. It was weird to see. Occasionally he'd let me stroke him.
After a couple of hours she started nibbling at his fur and be didn't freak out!
He's still not convinced though. Theres still some aggressive biting on his part if/when he can. He got a clump of nose fur, but she's still soft as a brush with him!
Bunnies! Who'd have em!?
NickieM - pics in the meet n greet section \-]

Bob you will find that happens a lot. Just wait for all of that behaviour to subside. When buns turn away from each other and clean themselves it is like a deliberate statement of pretending not to be bothered by each other. When you see them start to do that (both of them) you will know they are really thawing towards each other.

Hello I'm sarah and I've recently joined,
I have a bonded pair and recently have tried to introduce a third rabbit. I knew it would be a real challenge.. but it is even harder and more stressful than I thought it would be. (My sweet eight month old bunny transformed himself into a three dimensional 'biting machine' having a go at everything including us) It was a shock...
You will get excellent advice here from rabbit savvy and thoughtful people but the whole thing requires acquiring a certain mindset. Rabbits are so complex.
Read up as much as you can ahead of time, some good stuff out there from the Rabbit Welfare Association, House Rabbit society (US) and here on Happy Hoppers. Ponder on it... and the very best of luck.

Hi.

Folk are very supportive on here. Its a great forum.
Last night we didn't manage to get them in the same room together because we went to visit my grandparents. As everyone knows, that's a guaranteed 5 hour visit.
Tonight should be more fruitful though, we've got nothing on at the weekend either, so I'm contemplating a garden meeting (if the weather holds) depending on tonight's success/failure.

Bob - If she isn't spayed let it go for the moment. Allow them to sniff through bars but no more. It will go much easier once both have been done.

cheryl'n'bruce'flo wrote:Bob - If she isn't spayed let it go for the moment. Allow them to sniff through bars but no more. It will go much easier once both have been done.

^^^ This^^^


We had a litter of 5 all turn into hormonal monsters overnight - the change in them was unbelievable. They were all in the vets within a couple of days, and came home much calmer

The last thing you need is a proper scrap which will ruin any chance of them ever bonding. We would never trust our Rosie with Poirot, or try to bond them, as they got hold of each other once and had a proper full-on fight which was terrifying to see, although we pulled them apart almost as soon as it started.

Bob
Seconding Cheryl on that one...
Hard enough to bond sometimes even when they are spayed but without sterilisation??!!
Besides she is likely to live longer if she is. Cancer amongst 5+ year old unspayed females is very common.
Sarah

Well atm that's what we're doing. He's waaaaay to stang off-ish to let them alone together indoors. The main problem is that shes too young to get done. I guess its going to be lots of caged meetings until March.

How old is Splash Bob? On you OP is says 1/2 month but I am guessing you must mean around about 6-8 weeks. It used to be advised that buns be spayed at about 6 months but that was partially because of the anaesthetic risk. Things have improved in the vet world and the risks are no longer so high so many vets are happier to spay from around 4 months. I don't know if you have already spoken to your vets about this but it is certainly worth doing so.

I agree, it has to be a patient wait. So worth it though. Had my girl first, got her neutered, then got my boy young...had to wait months for him to be neutered. In that time they hated each other but as soon as he was castrated and it had been a couple of weeks they pretty much bonded themselves because they were so used to each others smell from living in the same room ! Waiting till March will seem like nothing when you see them happy for the rest of their lives together <3

Check this out! Mr and Miss Chilled!

That is good progress indeed!

Does she live in that set up at the moment? I ask because I can't see hay in that picture. I don't mean to be hypercritical but I am sure it is the first thing that will pop into most of the hoppers minds when they look at the pics so question asked and out of the way.

Progress indeed! They're sat like that at the moment.
She only comes into the living room like that for about 4/5 hours an evening when we're home. Normally she has the run of the landing which is easily 6 times bigger.
Her cage has a hay bucket that attaches to the side, she can tug it through quite easily. We've always got an equal amount of hay to the size of the bunny in their cage, and top up as it gets eaten. The reason its on the side is because its quite a small cage in comparison to his.

Glad to hear progress is being made.

Nose rubs to all x

So last night Anna and myself put up our Xmas decs, tree et all.
We popped everything up in places away from bunny interference and then set up Splash's pen so she & Radar could enjoy each others scent.
This time the pen was set up permanently, saving us the effort of having to keep moving her up & down.
Today we get up and Anna goes down to make tea, then I hear "Splash got out!!!" So I'm expecting blood, cadaver, the works. Down I storm to find her munching down on our cauliflower, him padding around and all is hunky dory!
Anna leans down to rub his nose, she jumps over him to come say hello & then wanders off into HIS cage and has a drink of his water! No blood, no tears, happy bunnies!

Did you leave them together - it sounds as if you should.

Amazing News!!! I hope it continues!!! are they both neutered now?