Arthur update - returning to foster care

I was going to do a proper intro for Arthur but I could do with some help from an experienced bunny owner who has had a similar experience. As you may know, I have been helping out a foster carer for bunnies and through her network of bunny fosterers I became aware of a white rabbit who was castrated and lonely. Anyway, being as he was castrated and young & healthy I have taken him on as a friend for Tilly. I was told he was an ermine rex but infact he is, what i think, a giant crossed with a rex, he is a big albino boy who I have called Arthur.

Arthur was a house rabbit who lved with a woman who had to go away and couldn't take him with her so she put him in rescue. He had been with the rescue fosterer for just under 2 weeks and I picked him up from the main rescue centre this morning. He had undergone an hour journey and then placed in a temp hutch whilst he waited for me to view him.

When I viewed him, he lunged at me, which was my first warning, when I picked him up he bit me and then he really went for me and I have sustained a painful injury to the palm of my hand. I was told he has never done anything like this before, and tbh I think he was very stressed from all the chopping and changing and the journey he went through. So I overlooked the bites and brought him home anyway.

He is currently in quarenteen in my back room in the indoor cage with a puppy pen around it. He is too big to shut in the cage.He lunged at DH earlier too.

Am I right in thinking that he just needs to decompress from what has happened? I don't want to give up on him, he has only been with me for 6 hours, I just wondered if anyone else had experienced this and was looking for words of wisdom and encouragement.

My hand really hurts, still, from the wound marks I can se his front teeth are perfectly alligned!!

DH have been joking we have the Beast of Caerbannog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9aSjlyIBAk



I will do a formal introduction of Arthur later. He is beautifull, a big white boy with red eyes

I think it is as you say and he is just very stressed and frightened. He's been through a lot of upheaval by the sound of it. Give him a few days to settle into his lovely new surroundings. Once he feels secure I'm sure he will calm down

I really hope so, the last thing I need is an aggressive rabbit as my kids often go into the avaries to give the rabbits some treats and I don't want them to be injured.
Thanks for your encouragement.

I'd let him have a peaceful night - he's been through a lot in a couple of weeks and is probably feeling very stressed and insecure.

If you can find a couple of hours free tomorrow when the house is quiet, I'd shut myself in his room with a book, open his pen, pop some nommy food near me, and completely ignore him. It'd be interesting to see how he is when he can do things in his own time.

We were told our foster, Cindy, was completely barmy - a bitey, scratchy madam who could not be picked up and could not possibly be rehomed like that. She has been as good as gold for us. We think she prefers being in a high-level hutch, as the hu-parents spend quite some time in her doorway chatting to her and stroking her. But as soon as she shows signs of having had enough, they back off and leave her alone. She allows them to lift her up and down from the hutch, as long as they approach her gently and pick her up securely. If she is in and they go to lift her out and she is not keen, again they leave her alone. Everything is done very much on her terms and her timescale.

Hopefully it is as everyone has said and the bun has had too many changes and is feeling very insecure.

Thanks Sparky, I will do that tmrw with him. Oh and can you tell father Jack that the silicone worked a treat on the avairy roofs, no leaks since so thanks for that

Is he castrated? That testosterone pumping round would only gave fuelled his angry stress levels?

He is castrated, some time ago, he is 1.5 years old. That's why he was ideal for Tilly as once I am happy he is healthy and eating ok and is used to the food i feed the others, he can begin his bonding with Tilly. I'm going to do what Sparky said about sitting in hs pen and letting him to come to me on his terms.

I had something of the same problem with Barley - although complicated with Sasha being just as bad

He is incredibly nervous as he had been attacked by another rabbit in his last home so I think it was a case of 'bite you before you bite me'. I have been doing the same thing with him. Just sitting with him and letting him come over and sniff me. He has never been aggressive with me, but is just so skittish. It is working and tonight I was able to stroke him and give him whole body strokes. Hope it works for your boy too.

I agree that it is important to give him quite time. Also try and put a towel or something over the cage to make it feel smaller to him - it will make him feel more secure. Put a box in the run and make sure whatever else you have to do for him in his cage and run do not disturb him in his box ever. He needs to feel secure somewhere whilst he gets used to you. Don't try to pick him up for a good while yet. Offer him veg by hand and see if he will learn to take it. I would also advocate scatter feeding so he does not become possessive of his food bowl. Try not to think about vet trips or bum checks or anything initially - he needs to learn to trust you.

Poor little dear. Arthur is just terrified. Let him run the show for now. Sparky gave some great advice. That is what we did with Thumper. You never know what horrors they have lived through.

cheryl'n'bruce'flo wrote:I agree that it is important to give him quite time. Also try and put a towel or something over the cage to make it feel smaller to him - it will make him feel more secure. Put a box in the run and make sure whatever else you have to do for him in his cage and run do not disturb him in his box ever. He needs to feel secure somewhere whilst he gets used to you. Don't try to pick him up for a good while yet. Offer him veg by hand and see if he will learn to take it. I would also advocate scatter feeding so he does not become possessive of his food bowl. Try not to think about vet trips or bum checks or anything initially - he needs to learn to trust you.

I put a towel over his cage ans he likes to bed down in his litter box I put in for him. He has a carrier also with his blankie in (he loves his blankie apparently!) I never put my hand in the cage, for fear of him attacking it. This morning I put some leaves in the run for him and gently gave him nose rubs but he looked cross at me, ears back, and I don't feel it was submission but annoyance, so I stepped back.

He really needs his nails clipping but I'm going to leave that for a long while yet. I have scatter fed him, I do that with all my buns anyway so they all get a good go at finding their food, plus it keeps them busy.

If I'm honest, this trust thing is gonna have to work both ways as tbh I am a bit afraid of him That was a really painful bite he gave me. I have dealt with buns who are very nervous and timid (Boo) and won round their trust, but I wasn't nervous of Boo, but never an aggressive rabbit. This is new to me. I'm actually worried about sitting in the pen with him.

I know exactly how you are feeling. Herbie originally came to us with Barney who was extremely agressive and managed to bite me several times. A full on bite is very painful and I reached the point where I was scared of a tiny mini lop. Sadly, with Barney his agression was not fear driven, he just had it in for me as my daughter could do anything with him.

The chances are that your guy is driven by fear and insecurity. I am sure that just sitting with him will not cause him to bite you he would need to feel provoked. I would just sit with him, with a good book and let him do his own thing. Let him get used to you, how you sound and how you smell which will hopefully build his trust.

Take it slowly, and when you try to hand feed him wear a thick glove. You could also when you start to try to stroke him use a thick glove, or even use something such as a glove attached to the end of a stick.

Looking to the future, he may settle down more when bonded. When Gabe was in rescue he was cage aggressive, out of fear. When he was bonded with Noo and came to me this lessened dramatically and I am sure a huge part of this was being with another rabbit. He does still box and grunt at times as a warning when he not in the mood to be touched. However this has lessened again dramatically over the last couple of weeks since Spring has come into his life.

You could also speak to you vet about Zylkene, which is used in cats and dogs with behavioural problems. My vet has used this with rabbits with good results. You can buy this without a vets prescription.

http://www.zylkene.co.uk/whatiszylkene.asp

You could also try some of the Bach flower essences in his water too. The Bach Rescue Remedy is easy to find and here is a link to suggestions to others for use in bunnies.

http://bananasforbunnies.org/?page_id=255

Hope this may be of help, good luck xx

Thank you ever so much for your advice and the links Sixer. The recue said he has never displayed this behaviour with them, just a little food agression over his bowl. I sat with him briefly earlier but felt so anxious he was going to take a chunk out of me, I left.

I gave him some treat hay (a bit of alfalfa and ready grass) but he wagged his tail at me in annoyance and flicked his feet in disgust at the hay and my presence.

I will look into those links you gave as I had wondered about the herbal remedies. Thank you.

We took Dudley on in May from 'Paws for Thought' animal rescue and he was very aggressive as he had obviously been constantly hit at one time as he hates hands and would lunge at you and growl. Mike has worked with him since May talking to him and trying different things to gain his trust, we did the soft grooming brush taped to a long stick so we could gently brush him and make him realise that being touched doesn't have to be unpleasant it was sad to see how he reacted as you could see his whole body just go hard with fear and each time Mike managed to stroke him gently with the brush we both told him 'good boy' over and over again.
We sometimes just sit in the pen with him and let him know that we can sit there without him being hurt and now he has learned that us going in his pen with him is not a bad thing where at first he would hide in his tunnel after lunging and growling at us.
It's takes a long time and loads of patience working with aggressive bunnies but it can be turned around. There are a couple of threads on here that I have posted when we have had a breakthrough with Dudley the best being when Mike actually picked him up to put him in his indoor hutch after spending months having to use a pet carrier because Dudley would not let you handle him. When Mike first carried him to his indoor hutch in his arms Dudleys whole body was like a rock with fear and now he is so relaxed and calm and those are the kind of breakthrough's that make you cry with happiness

Oh, the poor little love! The others give good advice

Ted was a little aggressive with us for a while, although he never bit (the only time he has bitten anyone was when he was with Pawz to be bonded, when he had only been there a few hours).

The thing that calmed Ted down most was Toffee - having an ally of his own kind settled him and he obviously feels more secure.

I'm not suggesting you begin bonding quickly, but I think a stable bond eventually will do wonders.

Aw Dudley - how fantastic that he is now so happy and relaxed. And oh yes, the words 'good boy' said over and over is what I used and still use with Gabriel. When he was chasing Spring whilst being bonded the words 'No, be a good boy' more often than that would stop him in his tracks.

On the Zylkene point I would ask for the equine version not the dog and cat version as it is lactose free and mroe suited to bunny digestion. You can just use a sprinkling of it.

Something none of us have mentioned yet, but ought to, is whether he could be in any pain or discomfort. So now it is a toss-up between leaving him alone to settle, and getting him checked over by a vet

I sympathise with you being wary of him - both Jack and Mrs D gave Humum quite nasty bites once each. She did figure out that it was to do with her putting food into a hutch in the dark so she changed the way she approached them. I agree that it is unlikely he will attack without *some* provocation. You mention sitting in his pen. Are you able to open his pen and be in the same room but not in 'his' space? I would also wear long, thick trousers like jeans, a long-sleeved top and shoes while in there, and have a pair of thick gloves handy. You need to feel safe to be near him, in order for him to feel safe to be near you.

Sparky, I don't think he is in discomfort, I think je is just sensitive and stressed.

I have had some encouraging signs though. Last night I needed to shut him inside the cage overnight as he could easlily jump out the pen and reek havoc with the computer wires if left unsupervised So, I put some cabbage leaves in his cage, and he went over to sniff them and simply pulled them out into the pen and ate them Luckily he went intot he cage on his own accord so I praised him and closed the door behind him. Just before he went away for the night I managed to give him nose rubs and he did 2 binkies in his pen

This morning I have given him a full body stroke and neither his ears nor tail suggested aggitation. I have been reading up on bunny body language so I can predict the lunges and avoid the bites. I lay next to him on the outside of the pen too and just rested for a while and he rested too.

I would love to put him outside for a bit but no way am I gonna pick him up. I don't mind having a bunny that I cannot pick up and fuss too much, as long as it doesn't frighten me I can accept him the way he is and just offer him a peaceful and safe life.

I've given him things to do as well which I think has helped, he has all his toys and his blankie and I gave him a cardboard litter box full of hay which he digs into and has demolished the box! I also had a megazorb delivery so gave him the huge cardboard box t play in after I'f removed the tape and cut entance holes in. He really like his boxes. His previous owner bought him a cardboard tunnel and a fiddlesticks thing but the size is suitable for a small guinea pig He tried to go into his tunnel but couldn't get in past his shoulders, so I'm going to find him a tunnel and an apple tree branch to chew on to.

Lets hope things continue to improve. I will defo wear thick jeans and a thick jumper when I sit in with him and my wellies so I feel safe.

That is lovely news You are doing a great job with him and I have everything crossed that Arthur continues to improve. The binkies are a wonderful sign that he is starting to relax and respond.

And how lovely it is that he has found a home who will accept him 'just as he is'.

For picking him up, if you have the space for a carrier - alongside the cardboard boxes! - in his pen you could leave this in with him for him to get used to. This can then be used as a means of picking him up and transporting him.

None of mine like being picked up. When they are out in the runs on the grasss they generally jump into their litter trays when they know it is time to back into the sheds. I then carry them back in the tray. They never make any attempt to jump out, they just see it as their preferred mode of transport!

Nose-rubs and full body strokes - good progress in just 24 hours

Is he actually still lunging at you at times? Or do you think you are avoiding prompting him to do so by backing off before it gets to that stage?

I have no doubt he can eventually be trained to go to particular places at a command, as your other buns do, and periscope for a treat so you can at least get a quick glimpse at whether he has a clean bum.

Is he up for a photo shoot yet?

I had some difficulty getting him into the run on the lawn, he growled at me when i tried to shuffle him along and then he hopped into the carrier, so i quickly closed it and put him on the grass. I had to makean adjustment to the run so tried to get him to go into the trixie hutwhilst I made the run safer. I put some strawberry leaves into the trixie hut and do you know what he did? He pulled out the blanket in his hut so the leaves would come out with it I like a clever bunny

I put Tilly on the lawn in another pen next to him, close enough to smell but not touch. Well, it didn't go well at all. Tilly started stamping her feet and grunting a little, this was directed at me I think. They went up to the adjacent bars and tried to bite each other and Arthur boxed her in the face quite angrily. I went into Tillys pen and ushered her out of the way and she ran behind me. I kinda got the feeling she was apprehensive and that she was telling me she wasn't sure and then after the boxing, she wanted to hide behind me. I covered Arthurs side of the run with a blanket out of sight and went and cleaned out both their homes.

I am sooooooooooooo glad I never put them in a pen together, I think it would have been vile. Vince reacts with the biting and boxing if anybun goes near his side of the garden. This was neutral ground to both buns.

I was hoping it would have gone a bit better.

Oh rats, I am sorry that their first meeting wasn't more positive. However, it was only their first meeting so try not to read too much into this.

Maybe a long slow bonding is the way to go with Tilly and Arthur. When I bonded Herbie and the girlies and then BJ and Rosie I favoured the 'just put them together and let them get on with' approach. I was extremely fortunate that this worked for them pretty much immediately. I now see that more flexibility is needed depending on the buns involved and that living alongside each other before attempting a bonding may well be the best approach.

I hope you are not too disheartened and that Arthur is continuing to relax. He sounds a real character.

Sending bonding vibes for Tilly and Arthur.