Vibes for Willow please U/D Doing better :D

So glad she is doing well hun.

Hi guys...

Willow went for her follow-up appointment tonight and has lost another 100g

The Baytril doesn't appear to have done any good this time.

My vet and myself are both a bit baffled as to what is causing the sudden weight decline. Willow is fine in herself and if she hadn't gone for her nail clipping/check up I'd never have had reason to believe anything was up. None the less, something obviously is...

1) We've almost ruled out teeth (as much as we can). The vet had a look and whilst this isn't 100% reliable, she could see no spurs. Add to the fact she has been with me since four months old on the correct diet (always a total hay monster!), and isn't really the 'type' to have teeth problems from genetics i.e. not a dwarfy/lop type bun. Also, she is still quite happily munching her hay.

2) The vet felt her tummy and can't feel any masses or problems there (although again, without further tests we wouldn't know for sure).

3) The vet is NOT so happy with her laboured breathing. She knows Willows history re: the suspected Pasteurella, and I did explain to her that she is quite a heavy breather. The vet possibly suspects that the Pasturella is starting to 'eat away' at her lungs lining. We'd need an x-ray to know for sure.

4) The other option (and what we are treating for) is E.C. She thinks Willow may have a dormant form. I'm personally not sure and I don't think she's convinced either, but other than running tests this is the only other 'treat and see' option we've yet to try. So her and Mo are on a 14 and 9 day course of Panacur respectively.

With regards to tests, I think we'll discuss it further when the vet sees her again in another fortnight. The only thing that worries me is we'll put her through the stress of tests - and the expense - for the vet to only be able to say "this is the case, there's not a great deal that can be done...".

As for Willow though, she's perfectly happy and content and is very obligingly taking her Panacur on Fenugreek Crunchies. Mr Mo on the other hand is not so impressed and so far I've had no joy getting it into him

If you could all send 'weight gain' vibes her way that would be great. Also, any tips for putting some weight on her? Every time I up her pellets her tummy just goes to pieces. She doesn't have fresh veggies either, for the same reason.

Thanks guys

I am so sorry Willow is not doing great hun. You must be worried sick.

I have no idea if it is good to get her looked at with all the expense but it might be as at least you will know for sure if it is that or not. Not knowing can sometimes be worse but that is a decision only you can really make and know , whatever you chose , there is no right or wrong hun. I can see why you may be reluctant.

I am sending mega mega meaga weight gain vibes, I have no idea on how to get her to gain weight hun, but I am sure many on here will be able to help. I would say maybe a couplf of extra crunchies but no idea if that is a good idea or not.

I really hope she will be okay and sending her a nose rub and cuddle.

Sorry to hear Willow is not doing so well.

To be honest I can't really see the symptoms for e.c. and it sounds as if your vet is grasped ng at straws. I would strongly suggest that now is the time for a trip to a more knowledable vet, or for your vet to seek advice.

I suspect that there are light sedatives that willow could gave without compromising her breathing. Teeth are the most obvious problem. And as for the no history bit - Bruce was 3 before he first needed a dental.

The other thing that immediately springs to mind with weight loss and the urinary problem accompanied with not being spayed is a uterine tumour.

Honestly the dormant e.c. theory is a load of tosh. Most rabbits have e.c. in the same way that they have mites. Either the e.c. is dormant and not causing any symptoms or it is active and causing problems. Whilst e.c. does cause urinary incontince I would have really expected there to have been more symptoms by now such as hind leg weakness, head tilt, balance issues or convulsions.

Blood tests should be able to give you some answers. I know you are scared if being told she is past the point of no return, but what if she dies and then you find out it was something that was eas to treat? The other thing that had just occurred to me is due the regular use of Baytril whether Willow has become non sensitive to it. Again the vet could get this checked out by sending a urine sample to the lab for testing.

Sorry your vet has narked me!

My vet is fantastic and I really see no need to travel further affield/go to another vet. She knows her stuff and is more than prepared to check Willows teeth and run tests. She informed us that we can test for E.C. and run x-rays and other tests to find out more - we were the ones who asked her "is there anything else we can try?", and she suggested the treatment for E.C. At no point has she diagnosed her with it, she has only suggested we try and treat that and see what happens. My vet most certainly HASN'T narked us - she's been fantastic throughout all of Willow's problems.

In Willow's situation - teeth aren't the most obvious problem. It is certainly a route we are all willing to explore if things continue to go down hill with her weight, but it is a last resort - none of her symptoms other than weight loss point to teeth - and so we are trying to eliminate/exclude other possible problems first.

Thanks for the support, Jade

I've not read the whole thread so forgive me if you've already done this.

Have blood tests been done to check kidney function?

Nose rubs for Willow

Thank you Father Jack.

No - we've not ran any tests on her as of yet. If she's no better at her next check up, that's when we'll start to think about running tests.

FluffSlave wrote:My vet is fantastic and I really see no need to travel further affield/go to another vet. She knows her stuff and is more than prepared to check Willows teeth and run tests. She informed us that we can test for E.C. and run x-rays and other tests to find out more - we were the ones who asked her "is there anything else we can try?", and she suggested the treatment for E.C. At no point has she diagnosed her with it, she has only suggested we try and treat that and see what happens. My vet most certainly HASN'T narked us - she's been fantastic throughout all of Willow's problems.

In Willow's situation - teeth aren't the most obvious problem. It is certainly a route we are all willing to explore if things continue to go down hill with her weight, but it is a last resort - none of her symptoms other than weight loss point to teeth -  and so we are trying to eliminate/exclude other possible problems first.

Thanks for the support, Jade

No problem hun. I know how worrying it must be and that it is difficult to know what to do and which tests are neccesary. X-rays may be a good thing to get done but I honeslty don't know as not as experienced as some on here but I know how much you love her and good you are with her and hope you find the cause of the weight loss. More vibes for her and you.

I'm so sorry to hear Willow isn't good I think if it we me I'd get x-ray's done as they can sometimes tell you so much more

Sending a skip full of 'magic eating' Vibes for Willow, I hope she will be ok

Thinking of you and Willow xxxx

FluffSlave wrote:My vet is fantastic and I really see no need to travel further affield/go to another vet. She knows her stuff and is more than prepared to check Willows teeth and run tests. She informed us that we can test for E.C. and run x-rays and other tests to find out more - we were the ones who asked her "is there anything else we can try?", and she suggested the treatment for E.C. At no point has she diagnosed her with it, she has only suggested we try and treat that and see what happens. My vet most certainly HASN'T narked us - she's been fantastic throughout all of Willow's problems.

In Willow's situation - teeth aren't the most obvious problem. It is certainly a route we are all willing to explore if things continue to go down hill with her weight, but it is a last resort - none of her symptoms other than weight loss point to teeth -  and so we are trying to eliminate/exclude other possible problems first.

Thanks for the support, Jade

Hi hun

I dont think anyone is suggesting that your vet is incompitent....

Here is an example for you. I am a fully qualified chartered accountant. I did 7 years training and have 10 years experience. However, sometimes I come accross problems I simply do not know about, or have never seen before - we are all constantly learning. Now, I have options available to me at this point. A) have a punt at it myself, and I have a fair chance of getting it right, or B) I get out there and get advice.

However brilliant or experienced I am - there will ALWAYS be someone who knows more about it than me. There will always be someone who has seen this problem before and can offer a different perspective. None of us can ever say we dont have more to learn

It seems to me that, this isnt something your vet has done. I may be wrong.... but take the GA issue. Has she asked around about the other GA options available? Because chances are that since her training, new tecniques and practices are out there that she just hasnt heard about. Its not a slight on her abilities.... but as with the example above... there is always something new to learn.

Its the same with the mystery illness hun - I dont think the answers feel right either (but Im not a vet of course) but whats the harm to seek advice from someone who may say "do you know what I saw a rabbit with these very symptoms last year and they needed xyz, and they were totally fine". They might also be baffled....but the point is that your vet doesnt know.... it doesnt seem like she has asked.

Please dont think this is a personal attack on you or your vet..... As you know I use one of the best vets in the country - and I am very lucky, but there have been instances when he has been baffled too, but I know that when these instances have arisen, he has asked for advice from others.

The fact that he admits he doesnt know it all, and is willing to ask for help, doesnt make me think he is less good.... it makes me think he is BETTER.

Please also dont think that this is us not supporting you. Its the oppositte. We want to see you and Willow have another 10 years together, because we care about you both, you are both important to us. We are just trying to help you get your 10 years hun. We all know how much you love her, we all know that you are the most wonderful bunny mum she could wish for.

Im sending her oodles of nose rubs and hugs for you. having a poorly bun is the pits, especially when you dont know whats wrong. xxxx

How is she today love?

Hugs
JO xx

Thanks Katie - I do understand what you are saying. We are yet to try any testing (all of which my vet is more than willing to do). Perhaps, if we still don't find anything from that, there are other options. I would feel awfully rude suggesting to my vet that she contacted so and so for advice - I'm sure she knows she could learn more, but I would hate for it to come across as a customer telling her how to do her job. Also, it was not this same vet we saw who diagnosed Willow as 'unsuitable for GA'. The vet who did that is less bunny savvy. I think at the point we started seeing our (now) regular vet for the buns at all times, we had already told her 'we're not willing to neuter etc etc'. She has said on quite a few occassions she'd be happy to give it a go and she does know of alternatives - it's me that's putting the brakes on it all.

I guess I am just extremely stressed out with it all. Willow has had so many issues in the past, this just seems to be pushing me past breaking point. I do not know what to do for the best - I have a great support system in you guys but it is hard not really having anyone here who understands. Mum takes us to the appointments etc but does not understand the buns like I do

To make matters worse I now can't get the Panacur into Mo by any means. I am just pretty fed up at this point.

She's fine thank you Jo - that's the frustrating thing. She's not wrong at all in herself, but is loosing weight rapidly

Am sending huge hugs to you, I know how worried you will be.

I personally would think the best way forward is for Willow to have blood tests, that would be my first thought for unexplained weight loss. I hope that you are able to get some answers and Willow responds to treatment.

Loads of vibes coming your way xx

Im not surprised you are stressed hunni - Having poorly buns, especially when you don't know what is wrong is awful....it consumes every waking moment. Sending you hugs x x x

Hoping Willow improves soon. Sending "get well willow wishes" x

Thank you all

As long as she remains happy in herself (which she has been throughout) I think I'll leave it the two weeks of treating with Panacur before taking her back. If we find she's lost weight when we take her back, then I think we'll have to run tests. My poor baby, I just wish I knew what was going on

A massive top up on fell better and gain weight vibes is coming your way (for willow) and hugs for you!

Same from here too, lots of loves and top up vibes.

Hugs
Jo xx

Everytime I see FluffSlave I giggle, how true it is. I sure hope everything goes well for Willow,
Much Love & Hugs for you both
Judy

Thanks guys

bunny boy - there was never a truer word spoken. I am well and truly owned by all of my fluffy ones

Sending more vibes and hugs.

How is Willow doing?

She's fine thanks Katie. Her normal happy, diva self

Still getting the Panacur into her via the magical Fenugreek Crunchies! No such luck with Mr Mo...

Will update you all after her appointment on Monday