Bonding Objectives? - Happy Update

What is required from bonding 2 buns?
My dutch boy is currently at a local rescue trying to be bonded, i was told that because of his age (3.5/4yrs) & depending on the length of time he'd been neutered he may not show an interest & he has to show dominance over the doe or she will think he's another female.
He's lived with me since August and hasn't met my bonded pair but in his previous home he did meet his previous owners bonded pair but he & the other boy didn't get on & had lived as a single bun.

There has been no bloodshed & minimal contact between the pair of them. I watched their initial meet yesterday & he submitted to the female, he didn't chase her at all, he did go up to her a 2nd time; she replied with a lunge & off he scarpered.
I've rang the rescue today & they are still at opposite ends of the stable.
I always thought the idea of bonding was to form a friendship, be groomed, lay together etc is this wrong?

My concerns are that if i bring them home together into a smaller space (my shed) my boy will be on his "own turf" & there won't be as much room to separate from one another. If they don't "get on" how will they share anything?

These are pics from their meet yesterday, he did put his head under hers just after this pic


They kept their distance from one another for the 30mins that i observed them for


Should i take this as encouraging or just that these 2 are not compatible? Would he be better with a female smaller/same size as himself or better on his own?

Thanks in advance

He does not have to show dominance over the doe. It is up to the two of them to work out their hierarchy. MANY does are the dominant one in a pair or group, and that is absolutely normal and fine. Your two have no fighting, no fur pulling, etc, which is VERY good! Personally, I think that it looks like they are in too large of an area for bonding. There is SO much space that there is absolutely no need for them to be close to each other, and is giving them too much opportunity to totally ignore each other. I would substantially cut down the amount of space that they have myself.

i agree with March Hare incl. the area is too large for bonding - needs to be smaller with lots of things in to distract them like topys and boxes and stuff.

Both myself & my OH thought exactly the same when we saw the stable but this is how the rescue do it. They are doing exactly what you say & are ignoring one another. I'm ringing the rescue today to find out what's happened overnight as after all the info i've gleaned they won't "bond" in such large space

That is sadly probably true. In a space that large, what they are doing is co-existing and tolerating each other, not bonding. There is enough space there for them to each have their own little territory independant of each other, and there is no need for them to bond. They are just carrying on with their own independant lives. They need a much smaller space where they will have to interact with each other, and be tempted to eat together and lie close to one another.

I have to agree with the space issue, it may help to stop them fighting but at the same time this is because they are able to avoid each other. This may mean when you actually get them home things could suddenly turn sour because they havn't been in close enough contact to establish a hierachy, especially given the relative size of a hutch in comparison to the stable.

I start all my bondings in a pet carrier and move to a indoor cage after a few hours....the cages are approx. 1 meter long to give you an idea of the bonding area I use!

As for the male/female side of things, my doe is the dominant bun in my pair. After she was introduced, Wolfgang started off bonking her stupid right away, then they had a bust up as she was not going to be such a push over. After some parallel living, they sorted out who was boss - her! - and have got on with living together very happily.

NickieM wrote:As for the male/female side of things, my doe is the dominant bun in my pair. After she was introduced, Wolfgang started off bonking her stupid right away, then they had a bust up as she was not going to be such a push over. After some parallel living, they sorted out who was boss - her! - and have got on with living together very happily.

In my 2 bucks:1 doe trio the doe is in charge. I would say it's usually 50/50 which gender will end up dominant and all that matters is that at leastone of them is laidback enough to allow the other to take charge. Quite often the dominant rabbit is the one you don't expect as well

Sooz wrote:I have to agree with the space issue, it may help to stop them fighting but at the same time this is because they are able to avoid each other. This may mean when you actually get them home things could suddenly turn sour because they havn't been in close enough contact to establish a hierachy, especially given the relative size of a hutch in comparison to the stable.

I start all my bondings in a pet carrier and move to a indoor cage after a few hours....the cages are approx. 1 meter long to give you an idea of the bonding area I use!

This is my fear if i were to bring them home I obviously don't want either of them injured & I'm not experienced in bonding buns; my piggy bondings have usually ended in disaster

I'm not happy with bringing them home as they are & haven't heard from the rescue yet as to how they are today, tho' i suspect exactly they'll be exactly the same

Thank you everyone

Niki wrote:

Sooz wrote:I have to agree with the space issue, it may help to stop them fighting but at the same time this is because they are able to avoid each other. This may mean when you actually get them home things could suddenly turn sour because they havn't been in close enough contact to establish a hierachy, especially given the relative size of a hutch in comparison to the stable.

I start all my bondings in a pet carrier and move to a indoor cage after a few hours....the cages are approx. 1 meter long to give you an idea of the bonding area I use!

This is my fear if i were to bring them home I obviously don't want either of them injured & I'm not experienced in bonding buns; my piggy bondings have usually ended in disaster

I'm not happy with bringing them home as they are & haven't heard from the rescue yet as to how they are today, tho' i suspect exactly they'll be exactly the same

Thank you everyone

Could you tell the rescue that you are scared that they might look bonded there because of the space, but may start fighting in a smaller area as you don't have that amount of space for them. Ask if they will try them in a much smaller space to see how they get on. At least you would have your mind put at rest and it might sort of politely point out to the rescue that maybe their bonding area is a bit too big, without appearing to be telling them how to do things.

NickieM wrote:

Niki wrote:

Sooz wrote:I have to agree with the space issue, it may help to stop them fighting but at the same time this is because they are able to avoid each other. This may mean when you actually get them home things could suddenly turn sour because they havn't been in close enough contact to establish a hierachy, especially given the relative size of a hutch in comparison to the stable.

I start all my bondings in a pet carrier and move to a indoor cage after a few hours....the cages are approx. 1 meter long to give you an idea of the bonding area I use!

This is my fear if i were to bring them home I obviously don't want either of them injured & I'm not experienced in bonding buns; my piggy bondings have usually ended in disaster

I'm not happy with bringing them home as they are & haven't heard from the rescue yet as to how they are today, tho' i suspect exactly they'll be exactly the same

Thank you everyone

Could you tell the rescue that you are scared that they might look bonded there because of the space, but may start fighting in a smaller area as you don't have that amount of space for them. Ask if they will try them in a much smaller space to see how they get on. At least you would have your mind put at rest and it might sort of politely point out to the rescue that maybe their bonding area is a bit too big, without appearing to be telling them how to do things.

I conveyed my fears today & was told they would try them in a smaller space as they are still apart & my boy is scaring her from his constant foot stamping (because of the strange noises) & she's scaring him when she jumps at him, what a pair! :luv:
They also said they wouldn't let them go together until they are 100% sure they are bonded, i feel much happier & feel quite confident that they will bond given the smaller space as the doe is a lovely friendly girl & my boy's not aggressive either

I hope that has put your mind at rest, I'm sure once they are living in close quarters it wont be long until they are snuggled & grooming.

Best of luck for a successful bond

That is VERY encouraging! It is very good that they are listening and addressing your concerns. Fingers and paws firmly crossed for a soon-to-be loved up couple!!! :luv:

That is really good. Hopefully it wont be too long before they get friendly and you can bring them home.

Thank you everyone I can't wait to see him again, hopefully with his laydee. I shall keep you posted

The update is very sad
Miffy (Smee's intended) became ill Weds, she was passing jelly, no poops but was eating & seemed ok in herself. She was taken to the vets & discharged today because she was much better (eating, drinking, pooping) but still on meds. She'd been given her meds at the shelter but sadly an hour later she had passed away.
I'm so upset as this is the 2nd bunny who's gone. The first one i chose for Smee became ill the day he was supposed to meet her, similar symptoms, passing jelly & died 2 days later at the vets, she was eating etc at 6am, 7am had passed away, It was thought it was a complication of her spay, yet her 2 babies who shared with her were & still are fine.

The shelter were going to ask the vets to do a PM on Miffy to try & determine what was wrong, the lab results from fecal matter that was sent away won't be back until Friday & this means i cannot bring Smee home until they know what it is as i have other buns & other animals
At the moment he is fine as are the other bunnies, including the young ones.

Has anyone had any experience of this? I am so worried

Oh no, I am so sorry to hear this. The jelly stools usually indicate an infection in the gastro-intestinal tract which causes it to produce extra mucus to try and lubricate it, thus soothing any particles which pass through it.

It is often termed Mucoid Enteritis, though can occur with or due to other conditions. ME is most often seen in young weanling rabbits though and is very unusual in adults.

It is highly contagious & usually spreads quickly though kits, weanlings and immunocompromised rabbits.

Another option is Coccidia but again this is not normally a killer in adult rabbits and usually presents with bloat & diahorrea too.

Quarantining is certainly sensible until the feacal results have come back and you know what you are dealing with. I am so sorry this has happened to you and I really hope it's nothing serious.

The vets were treating Miffy for coccidia "just in case" but neither she nor Holly (other bun) were young buns. Miffy was aged approx 2 yrs, Holly 11 months, she also had 2 4 month old babies with her when she became ill, thankfully they are still well.

Could it be a very tragic coincidence?

It could be but it seems unlikely. It's probably best to treat it as the worst case scenario i.e. it is contagious until proven otherwise by the vets.

When I was running a rescue we had a Coccidia outbreak at a foster carers and it was awful. Oddly she lost a lot of adult rabbits to it and we still don't know why but it originated from a litter of weanlings .

Thank you Hopefully i will receive some good news from the Shelter friday and will be able to bring my boy home

oh no. so sorry to hear this sad news. Hope Smee is fine.

Thought i'd update this after everyone's help. My boy has been home 10 days as the PM on Miffy bun was clear & both he & the other buns were fine & both myself & the shelter thought it best he be at home. He's continued to be fine at home & has settled in well. Today i received the best news; the fecal samples that were taken came back clear & the shelter too has been given the all clear

That is FANTASTIC news!!! You must be SO incredibly relieved!

Thats brilliant news, you must be so relieved to have your boy home. Are there plans for anymore bonding attempts at some stage?

I am over-joyed! The shed was empty without him. Yes there are plans, i have a dutch girl reserved at another rescue, i've been waiting for the all clear from the shelter & the girly has been recovering from her spay, as soon as is possible for them to meet bonding will start.