Desperate for Help- re watery brown diarrhoea

Hi im new here and so desperate for some help and advice. I have had houserabbits for 14 years and have never had a bunny problem beat me. Im also a vet nurse!
Martha is a 3 year old belgian hare and lives with her companion Moritmer a rex. Martha has had an on going problem with watery diarrhoea since she was quite young. It happens intermitently and with no pattern. It is like brown water and drips from her bottom without her seeming to have any control over it. I wash their house and the floor and walls of their room at least 4-5 times a day and im exhausted. I have 2 small children too!
Have taken her to see several vets (i gave up work to have children) and they never seem to help. She has been on Septrim antibiotics and this hasnt helped either.
What is it? and why does it happen? is it coccidiosis? if so what can i do? I asked the vet if it could be this last visit and also asked him to test a faecal sample but he wouldnt and said i needed to collect some of the diarrhoea. But i never know when its going to happen and its just drips!!!
Please help if you can,
much love to all you bunny lovers,
Camilla

Welcome to HH. Martha's problem must be such a worry for you, I hope HH can help. I have no real advice but I wouldn't have thought it could be coccidiosis as I seem to think it is fatal and also contagious. Could the diarrhoea be linked to a particular food she eats?

Sooz, who we all rely on for our bunny health problems will be along soon and I am sure will give you loads of advice and help.

Hi Sixer thanks for your reply. Was just clutching at straws re the coccidiosis diagnosis, because the symptoms and degree of infection can vary so widely thought it could be it. Also i know the suceptability of the individual animal can determine the degree of infection. And Martha eats well, lives well and enjoys life so is good on those counts!
Really dont think its a dietary issue as im quite strict with them!! also have tried variations to her diet with no sucess:-(

Have you tried a probiotic at all? Something like Fipreplex?

Hi Sarah, yes i tried Fibreplex, no change, although getting her to take it was a nightmare, so maybe the stress involved in getting it into her had the adverse affect! May try it again though as im at the end of my tether.

The problem with coccidiosis is it's somthing that many rabbits carry in their systems anyway so defining a problematic infection usually depends on exactly what level of bacteria is present. Coccidia often presents with serious side effects such as bloat and stasis, and is fatal in some circumstances but not so much in healthy adult rabbits, though they would certainly appear poorly at the time.

I would expect a feacal sample to be necessary anyway, as it may show signs of infection related to other bacteria or parasites besides coccidia. You can take a sample from ordinary stools too, it dosn't have to be the runs. Alternatively you could treat her with a coccidiostat 'just in case' but it *might* damage any natural immunity she already has.

Perhaps if you could describe her diet to us we might be able to give you some other pointers.

Hi Sooz, thanks for your reply. Martha and Mortimer are fed as follows:
A.m selection of home grown seasonal green veggies, such as kale, brussel tops/stalks, sprouting broccoli, swede leaves, small piece carrot and occasionally smaller piece fruit. Unlimited burgess supa forage
P.m Measured scoop of burgess supa rabbit, unlimited burgess supa forage.
I have had them on breeders type pellets also and tried different hay, but with no sucess. Occasional treat of some raisins. Probably 1-2 times a week.
All th veggies we grow are completely organic.
I have to say at times i feel as if i am a little scant in the feeding department them as they are always absoultely starving!! But we never have any uneaten caecotropes.

Is the Supa rabbit a mix or is it the pellets and have you tried to cut out greens totally for a week or two.

The one thing I notice is the greens you feed are very much of a 'cabbage' orientation and there are a fair few bunnies who cannot tolerate many of the vegetables you have mentioned above, brocolli, kale & sprouts being some of the worst for GI upsets.

As an aside, they must cost you a fortune in forage!

The supa rabbit is the pellets, no selective feeding in this house, seen the consequences at work-sludgy bladders!!!
Never heard of cutting greens to be effective on this problem, what would i use as an alternative?
And yes the forage costs a bomb, but its on 3 for 2 at pets at home at the moment so i stock up big time.

Am sticking my nose in here but I imagine the pellets are Supa Rabbit Excel?

I had our first two bunnies on these and I had major problems with excess caecotrophs with one of them. I know of other people who have had similar problems although to be fair there must be a lot more bunnies who are fine on these pellets. I then swapped them to Science Selective with no change in excess caecotrophs. I have to be honest and admit that it took me some time to twig the pellets were the cause - I messed around with no veg, probiotics et al.

I then tried the bunnies on Oxbow Bunny Basics T which is a timothy hay based pellet. The excess caecs stopped immediately. I believe the Excel and Science Selective pellets are alfalfa based and I assume one of our bunnies was sensitive to this. All six of our bunnies now thrive on the Oxbow, unfortunately my purse doesn't

I just wonder if your bunnies are not eating hay as such, given the Excel Forage is dried grass whether this combined with the pellets and/or veggies are causing the problems.

I have a copy of Rabbit Nutrition by Virginia Richardson which recommends blackberry leaves to dry up diarrhoea. It may be worth introducing these and a probiotic is also suggested.

Camilla wrote:The supa rabbit is the pellets, no selective feeding in this house, seen the consequences at work-sludgy bladders!!!
Never heard of cutting greens to be effective on this problem, what would i use as an alternative?
And yes the forage costs a bomb, but its on 3 for 2 at pets at home at the moment so i stock up big time.

You don' replace the greens as initially the point is to stabilise the GI tract. You use a hay & water diet for 2-3 days, sometimes up to a week if the rabbits are excellent hay eaters, (think of it like putting a poorly dog on a chicken & rice meal) and then starting again as you would with a weanling to slowly build them up to eaing new foods by introducing them one at a time, over a few days in a very small amount. This allows you to pinpoint exactly which foods are causing a problem, if any at all.

Also, as Sixer says, Excell pellets are notorious for causing feacal problems. These normally manifest as excessive feacal producion but it may be that they are responsible for your poor bunnies runny stools too. As pellets go Excel are pretty high in protein and lacking in fiber, there are better alternatives on the market. If you go down the hay & water root this would offer the perfect opportunity to introduce a new pellet as well. I would strongly suggest trying Supreme Science Selective. It may or may not be the answer but at least you can rule it out.