Are rabbits built for longevity?

Something I have been pondering for a few days now.

Over the years I have been keeping rabbits it has become apparent to me that very few of mine have ever just gone peacefully in their sleep one night at what would be considered 'a ripe old age'. I remember reading some books when I was younger which claimed most rabbits lived 3-5 years and after my first rabbit made it to 8 I was super impressed that she had done so well, yet these days 8-10 is generally considered a standard age. None of my others have reached 8, my next oldest was 7 and the others have ranged from just 6 months to 5 years....so of the 14 rabbits I have owned, just 2 have lived to the modern ideal 'old age' whilst 5 died within the outdated idea of 'old age'.

I've included a multiple choice poll with this to get an idea of how long, on average, members have found their rabbits life expectancy to be. I hope this isn't too morbid a topic for you all.

What I am wondering is, do you think rabbits are built to live to the 8-10 years we expect of them these days or was the older idea of 3-5 years more accurate? If so, is this because it was generally more accepted that rabbits would die from disease or ill health due to a lack of veterinary understanding and that in these modern times, when they are the third most popular pet in the UK, we should be able to treat conditions that would have been considered terminal two decades ago?

Perhaps it is that our domestic rabbits are still closely genetically linked to their wild counterparts, who are not expected to live long due to disease and predation, and accordingly they are simply not built to last for 10 years or more so as time passes organs begin to weaken and immunity starts to decline (the average age for a wild rabbit is just two years)?

I have no doubt that the fact we have bred from so many lines of genetic mutation has introduced many variables in the health stats which contribute to fatal conditions that were not so prevelant decades ago and this is of course has a considerable impact on the types of disease we see in our rabbits today, but I still wonder if we genuinely expect too much from out little companions in terms of their life expectancy and perhaps from ourselves in our quests to get them to fall into that 'old age' category.

Maybe those who insist on breeding should be going for longevity over looks?

Feel free to discuss.

poor dusty.approx 18mths when we got him.spent a happy 6mths with us.in that short time had 5 dentals.a checky fella who loved affection.
BINKY FREE

apparently his brother died a few weeks after so may be it was genetic

We lost our Billy at the age of 5 on the operating table he had eaten somthing that blocked him up but befor that he was a happy and healthy fella.
At the mo we have 2 that are 3 and doing fine a 2 year old and Archie that will be 1 in june.

I haven't had a house rabbit die, but my oldest at the moment is about two. I have never had any health problems with her (knock on wood) and she has been happy and healthy ever since I've had her with not even a hint of sickness.

I heard this somewhere before, might have been here or somewhere else, can't remember... I think most rabbits don't die of "old age" and go peacefully into the night as you say Sooz, because of our advances in Veterinary training. I think the ones that we save from sickness with vet treatment have a harder time later on because they weren't hearty to begin with. I would expect a small few actually make it to 8-10 years because rabbits weren't built to live that long, some just happen to be lucky ones. Sorry if this doesn't make sense, it does in my head at least

When i was a child, my first bunny died at 18 months - myxi. our other lived til he was 10 and then he got myxi.

since i have had the rabbits i have owned myself, my four, so far i havent lost any so i cant really comment, but i do wonder sometimes, if the ones that live til old are are just lucky

My first pair of rabbits lived to four and five. The four year old had cancer, which looking back had probably spread from her womb; although the five year old appeared to go peacefully; but I'll never know. Out of the current bunch, Cupid is 4/5 (rescue) and the other three are coming up to two this year.

I think, like with all things, how they go depends upon various environmental and genetic factors.

I don't vote in the poll because I was never so lucky to have a rabbit live long.
Daniel died at 1, his mum at 3.5.
Two buns got myx and were PTS at 3 or so
Arthur was not yet 3 when I had him PTS.
So I sincerely hope the buns I have now will live longer and very happy.

I voted for 8 because I have absolutely no idea how old Mollie was when she died, we had her for about 5 and a half years I think, and she was 2 or 3ish when we got her. My current two - one is nearly 3 atm and the other no one knows, I'm guessing roughly the same age, maybe 6 months or so younger

I've only ever had two rabbits, apart from Tibbs, who hopefully will live a long and happy life. Apollo lived about five years, whereas Truffles of course just 18 months or so. I've often wondered how long I can reasonably expect Tibbs to live, barring any health problems, and come to the conclusion that I just don't know...

I haven't voted because I would tick every option with all the bunnies I've had, but the short answer is that I don't believe that they are buily for longevity, I think they are far too frail, especially some of the fancy breeds that have been introduced

Hollie died when she was about 5 years. Currently Gloria is about 4. She arrived with us aged 2 and Wolfie is about 3. He was a less than a year when we got him. Don't know how old Felix is at all.

I think that they fall victim to:

* genetic problems because of over-breeding
* pure neglect because of the ignorance of many people
* over indulgence with too much food and not enough hay
* boredom and loneliness when left alone in a hutch for life
* the public perception that they are a short-lived animal that is easy to keep and not worth taking to the vet for jabs or care

I'm not sure if this is relevant or not to this thread, I think it may be?
I've been speaking to a bunny expert about some of the things brought up here, and she is of the belief that certain small breeds and Lops are subject to a constant level of stress and anxiety because their senses are compromised by the position of they eyes and ears. She showed me diagrams of their aural and visual ranges, and the diferences between wild (and wild shaped rabbits), and certain small breeds and lops was huge, and as all bunnies have prey instincts, they are not able to get the sensuary information they need to enable them to respond effectively, and as they should.

I know very well from working with people who have permanent underlying anxiety trough chronic illness etc. that their immune and health is compromised as a result, and If anything, may well be worse in buns as we know they don't handle stress at all well.

I wonder if we could find out which breeds live longest, and if this is relevant?

Jay, i think there is alot of truth in what you just said.

Peanut is often very stressed, he gets stressed easily. so did cookie our foster. both lops. But I have decided after my current lot i wont have any more lops. I think they have too many health problems., i know any breed or bun can have health issues but i think they have too many problems for me, its too much heartbreak

I stand by my theory that rabbits that arethe most 'true' to their ancestors live longest. i have nothing toback this up really, it just makes the most sense.

take dogs for example. bonnie is cavalier and the breed problems are horrendous. they tend to live to 10 years. you take a dog like a collie, they tend to live longer.

I think the less we tamper with breeds, the longer they will live

Interestingly enough Jay, smaller breeds are actually considered to have longer lifespans than giants beacuse there is less stress emposed upon their organs by their size. in which case we *could* assume physical stress is more important to longevity than emotional/mental stress.

that makes sense SJ, cos there is nothing that nature has created that we can better, so if they are designed that way by nature and sqillions of years of evolutionary progression and fine tuning, , then that is going to be the best design for that animal. ETA, wether or not it's a design that gives it longevity I don't know, it may be that the design is the best for its ability to live as a Rabbit, not necessarily a long living Rabbit...if that makes sense?

Sooz wrote:Interestingly enough Jay, smaller breeds are actually considered to have longer lifespans than giants beacuse there is less stress emposed upon their organs by their size. in which case we *could* assume physical stress is more important to longevity than emotional/mental stress.

mmm, She was putting it in the context of buns that were unsuitable for children, due to them being stressed as a way of life, therefore more prone to nipping/biting/being unplayfyl etc. but I will ask asbout the different effects of physical and emotional stress
ETA Would it be a fair assumption that Giants are exposed to different stresses, due to them being (at the other end of the scale) as far removed from wild buns as Dwarfs?

I think that makes a lot of sense about lops being compromised genetically.

Gloria is part-lop I think. She has a broader face than Wolfie and droopy ears. She is also very nervous and highly strung and does scare very easily. She quite often bolts off in fear over something that doesn't even make Wolfie move. He is much bolder and confident. I think that he has a swipe of Nethie in him as he is quite a small bun, but has normal sized ears so is probably mixed breed.

I would think that anything miniature or giant would have problems because they are so far removed from the normal size.

Jay wrote:that makes sense SJ, cos there is nothing that nature has created that we can better, so if they are designed that way by nature and sqillions of years of evolutionary progression and fine tuning, , then that is going to be the best design for that animal. ETA, wether or not it's a design that gives it longevity I don't know, it may be that the design is the best for its ability to live as a Rabbit, not necessarily a long living Rabbit...if that makes sense?

good point! hmm it is interesting.

I am so glad that you brought this up Sooz. This is something I constantly ponder. I think the answer for me is a resounding NO. I have had one bunny that was 8 and one that was 10. Ironically I took the 8 yeah old on after he had spent his life in a 3 x 2 hutch and never been bothered with. After 2 years with me he got an abscess and died and broke my heart.

Princess got to 4 and a half. OTher than that all mine have died between 14 weeks and 18 months normally. Chance is now very elderly, although we don't know exacly how old but thinking is around the 8 mark. My other 2 are almost 3. But I don't expect to have any of them for very long. I seem to have the kiss of death. The most common cause of death in mine has been abscesses, stasis or myxi. Your point about the smaller breeds Jay, is fascinating. From my experience of Nethies they are a very jumpy little breed and when you think about it, despite having larger eyes they do seem to have a more central positon. It makes complete sense to me that their frailty in particular would be down to a lack of adequate sensory perception. What a very interesting point.

I am going to let my numbers dwindle now and just get myself down to a pair. Ideally I would like to get rid of the rabbit bug, as I know I would save myself alot of heart ache. But I know that that just isn't going to happen.

Jack was 2 when she died. My other two are still around...

my first bun, who was a nethie x english, weighed about a kilo and lived until he was 7 years. He lived in the same way as the giants I have now, free range. But he never had vaccinations, we never got him castrated.... I think i have learnt an awful lot from having him.

I lost Hermy at the age of 14 months due to complications of her breed...

I lost a bunny at 4 years 3 months. I don't know the cause but she was a dental bunny and had all sorts of problems such as not being able to clean herself and mites, she was being treated for mites at the time she died. She was a good hay eater but had dentals every 12 weeks at the worst stage. Her incisors were misaligned.

I lost another at 3 years 9 months. In retrospect her diet wasn't all it should have been. I didn't know at that time how much of a problem it was that she wasn't eating enough hay etc, I suspect she also got too much calcium in her diet.

I lost another this year at 8/9 months. She died from a twisted liver. Her death came totally out of the blue - she was so vibrant and such a good hay eater, don't know if this problem could be due to bad breeding (she was a lionlop). The vets could see no reason why the liver twisted.

None of the above were PTS, they all died naturally at the ages given.

Artie has just had a cystotomy at 4 and a half years old. There is probably a problem with his bladder not emptying fully, so the calcium couldn't be washed out as it should. Without this surgery I think he would have died as he would have been in a lot of pain from the resulting infection.... his problem again could be caused by poor breeding but he's reached 'old age' according to what was expected years ago (he doesn't behave old though!)

MissySJ wrote:I stand by my theory that rabbits that arethe most 'true' to their ancestors live longest. I have nothing toback this up
really, it just makes the most sense.

Why do you think this SJ? I'd be interested in your line of thought. There may be a point of view that the gene pool might be more diverse in
wild rabbits but then, they are not averse to some incestuous relationships, so perhaps it is because nature encourages those with the best traits to interbreed as opposed to diluting the blood line with outside genetics, thus ensuring that only those with the most useful genes survive....so through natural selection & evolution.

On the other hand, as I mentioned earlier, the expected lifespan of a wild rabbit is 2 years, so are they actually built to survive longer, assuming predation and disease dosn't claim them or is it likely they will fall victim to some health problem within their first 5 years regardless because thier bodies simply cannot last the course or take the strain of a longer life.

Also, on the Nickie's theory about the levels of care, my oldest surviving rabbit was never speyed, vaccinated, visited the vets, rarely fed hay, free roamed in the garden (not in a safe way) and ate muesli. She never ailed a day in her life (and she was a large lop). This seems to be a recurring theme for some people, any thoughts?

well, i once knew someone who had a huge avairy in their garden, like massive, something like 30 ft wide.

if someone found a baby wild bunny that was abandoned, sick or injured, like easter was found, she would nurse them back to health, or just look after them ti; they grew up, and put them in this massive avairy,, she fed them everyday but had tunnels made under the grass and everything for them to be 'wild' but in a safe enviroment. lovely really.

i remember her saying she had 10 in their at one time, and only one died under 3 years old. The rest lived 7+ years, one until it was 11.

i just assumed minus predators and other factors, a 'safe' wild rabbit can live a long time, so a rabbit that is true to its ancestors is likely to be the same.

Right enough Sooz that some rabbits are indestructible. My neighbours' buns live loose in their garden (in a fenced in bit). They eat muesli and don't get hay very often. They do got to the vet regularly and are vaccinated and are now the grand age of 7. Maybe some buns are just better at getting old. A bit like the humans who live to a ripe age, but who smoke and drink. It is probably just luck with some, but with others the care factors and genetic problems do factor in.