Bonding wuss - U/D I bottled it after about 10 minutes :(

What happens when a big wuss plans to bond her rabbits?

Well, she usually chickens out

Or in quite a few cases one bunny or the other pulls a sicky and ends up at the vets - that's before the bonding I might add, not because of it.

Anyways, this big wuss has decided for definite (unless there's a really good reason not to) that Artie and Esme will be entering the bonding pen on Wednesday

They live amicably side by side so in theory, fingers cross and all that

I shall let you know, assuming I don't chicken out again, but I'm determined this time as I have a new (and second) part-time job so the likkle luvs will be left for 30 hours in total a week so need more than ever bunneh company.

*I HAVE to do it now I've told everybody* (what a wimp)

Good luck! Have positive energy... the buns will be able to feel it! We're all cheering for you!

I know the feeling. I tried one day to bond Felix, Gloria and Wolfie. Wolfie behaved like a total viking and Gloria went down with stasis the next day. Am going to wait until Spring!

Good luck with your pair. If I was home more and could keep them at it until they just got on with each other I would. They can be the most annoyingly territorial little gits.

Hurahh Good Luck

Bonding vibes coming your way

Artie and Esme will make such a gorgeous pair

Good on you, hope it will work out fine, keep up the faith!

Thanks everybody, I'm so flippin' nervous, I've been putting it off for so long.

Sixer wrote:
Artie and Esme will make such a gorgeous pair

Thank you, I really hope they want to live together

Good luck, hope it goes well tomorrow.

I've never bonded bunnies - far too much of a wuss here!

Thanks for the vibes everybody. I've bottled it

It seemed to go okay for about 2 minutes, they wandered round each other, sniffing each other, then Artie started humping her. She didn't move she just let him then they broke and wandered round a bit, he humped her again. Again she was okay. I though great, he's in charge, they've got it over with. Then he started humping her head, she stayed calm but I was worried for his tackle after some stories I've read They then moved on to a bit of chasing but it included foot thumping from both parties which I was a bit concerned about, there was no real sparring but definitely discontent. Then I could hear growling and he was about to mount her head again. Now this might be normal but I was so worried as I didn't know who was growling and just felt that the mood between them wasn't right. There'd been no physical aggression but I just felt there would be.

So I've bottled it I really don't think I've the courage to try again but so peed off as I've spent all day making preparations all for 15 minutes before I bottled it *sigh*

I'm sorry

I must say, I only have positive experience, but...I always bonded really young ones to a little older or adults.
When I saw how Rufus didn't leave Rosie Lee alone for one minute, I was worried too, but I went through with it anyway (must look other way from time to time)

lopz wrote:I must say, I only have positive experience, but...I always bonded really young ones to a little older or adults.
When I saw how Rufus didn't leave Rosie Lee alone for one minute, I was worried too, but I went through with it anyway (must look other way from time to time)

I'm beginning to think their behaviour was normal and that I just got too scared of injuries. It's so hard to know. I really think having my mum there didn't help as she was putting her anxieties on to me, having not done any reading about their behaviour when bonding. Talk about wuss

It's funny now they are in their own pens side by side they are ignoring each other.

If it helps you think about trying again in the future there is no reason why you can't interfere and stop the mounting if you feel it is being antagonistic to either rabbit. I have had a rabbit nipped on the genitals before and it isn't pleasent so I read behaviour before allowing this to happen now. Most rabbits are OK with mounting the right way round if their personality is submissive.

Easiest way to prevent mounting is a quick squirt of water on the head, some even get the message and will stop trying period after a few attempts.

Sooz wrote:If it helps you think about trying again in the future there is no reason why you can't interfere and stop the mounting if you feel it is being antagonistic to either rabbit. I have had a rabbit nipped on the genitals before and it isn't pleasent so I read behaviour before allowing this to happen now. Most rabbits are OK with mounting the right way round if their personality is submissive.

Easiest way to prevent mounting is a quick squirt of water on the head, some even get the message and will stop trying period after a few attempts.

Thanks. I'm possibly building myself up to trying again tomorrow. I've been told that the foot thumping might not have been as antagonistic as I thought it was. Esme showed no sign of nipping is genitals, she was very calm and accepting, I just panicked at the possibility. I did have leather gloves on and moved him off her fairly easily when I decided he was in danger ... so perhaps it wasn't really as scary as I read it to be at the time. I think I just thought the mood might change like the flick of a switch. I suppose as they've lived side by side for so long they didn't bother with the sitting in corners ignoring each other but went straight for the heirarchy thing.

I think you should definitely try again!!! Besides, they are only supposed to have short visits together at a time in the beginning. I think you're being too hard on yourself... it sounds like it was actually a fairly successful attempt. True, they didn't fall in love in the first seconds of hanging out, but who really believes in love at first sight?

I think you should keep trying, and then you'll be able to help out other people who don't have immediate success stories! Good luck!

ElleyMay wrote:I think you should definitely try again!!! Besides, they are only supposed to have short visits together at a time in the beginning.

I actually don't like this method and try not to advocate it for most bondings because you essentially go back to the beginning every time you restart the bonding process, as the hierachy needs to be re-established. The vast majority of bonds can, in neutral territory with adequate supervision, be complete in 48 hours....that is to a stage where they can be left unattended. Most bunnies can safely cohabit after 3 days.

I don't think thumping is an aggressive gesture at all, more one that shows the rabbit is unsure and cautious. Growling is something to take notice of though and does usually preceed a lunge or bite.

Sooz wrote:I actually don't like this method and try not to advocate it for most bondings because you essentially go back to the beginning every time you restart the bonding process, as the hierachy needs to be re-established. The vast majority of bonds can, in neutral territory with adequate supervision, be complete in 48 hours....that is to a stage where they can be left unattended. Most bunnies can safely cohabit after 3 days.

I don't think thumping is an aggressive gesture at all, more one that shows the rabbit is unsure and cautious. Growling is something to take notice of though and does usually preceed a lunge or bite.

I'm definitely going for the 'put them together and keep them together for one period of time' (as long as it's amicable) method of bonding. I suspect they were actually alright but I don't have enough experience so I think I'll be getting help with it. In retrospect I'm not actually sure it was growling, it could have been buzzing or honking but it wasn't Artie's nomal happy buzz, I wasn't sure who was doing it so assumed it was Esme getting rattled, though her body language didn't particularly suggest it. I wish I'd realised the thumping wasn't anything much as I think I may have misread the vocals as they coincided with the thumping.

They didn't just lunge at each other though and haven't fought so I think they are real positives to know for when the bonding does actually happen.

By bonding pen, do you mean an actual pen like a puppy pen? Because at first I tried mine in a pen, but because there was no escape route (although I did put carry cases in) it didn't work because Petal was too terrified and wanted to get out of the pen desperately. When I tried the hallway, which is an enclosed area but with lots more room and places for bunnies to explore and escape into, it was like a whole other bonding experience. She was much more relaxed and let him groom her quite quickly after the initial intro, then they explored the new area together and soon it was all binkies and mutual grooming!

I think that a bunny owner knows their bun best and knows what does and doesn't work for them!! You'll find your way allison I'm sure!! All buns are different and every bonding experience will be different.

Have you gone through with it today?

LilleJente wrote:
Have you gone through with it today?

No. Apart from not feeling confident enough to do it myself, Esme hardly pooped overnight and seemed a bit quiet this morning. She's eaten her pellets, spring greens, carrot and various treats and doesn't seem unwell but I just wondered if she was stressed. She's just done a few more poops but they are small, so I really don't want to cause her any stress. (She could, of course, be stressed because I separated them )

I'm a bit ambivalent about bonding them at all at the moment as I hear of dominant bunnies making their companion's life miserable and just don't want them to be living like that. They seem 'happy enough' side-by-side. I don't know what the right thing to do is at this stage.

Also, if he's going to be so keen to assert his dominance he will probably be like this every time he's had a spell at the vets and it's going to be tense all round every time he's been away.

I'm probably painting a much darker picture than it is but I don't want them living together for the sake of it, I want to be sure it's the best thing for them both, though I don't suppose you can be sure unless you've tried it

hanspan wrote:By bonding pen, do you mean an actual pen like a puppy pen?

Yes, an acutal pen. I have spent a year and a half reading up for this (coming across loads of different views) and decided to follow the advice of small pen, one bonding session. I think in their case a small pen would be the only thing to work as the chasing can get more aggressive in a larger area as they tend to 'get it over with' a lot easier in a smaller pen. I'd also need to be at hand to intervene if necessary and the small pen would work better for that.

I really was expecting them to spend hours ignoring each other at first, I was very surprised to see Artie being so dominant so quickly. There has always been a clear heirarchy with him expecting to be given a treat or petted first and she has always waited patiently for me to cuddle him for ten minutes then she gets excited because she knows it's her turn. So from that I should have realised who would be dominant. I just worry that she would get a bit fed up of being a doormat if he got too much. It also concerns me that if I inadvertantly gave her too much attention (if they were a pair) then he might take it out on her Bunnies are so complex

I hope Esme picks up! I agree, bunnies are complex! You'll get it eventually!

ElleyMay wrote:I hope Esme picks up! I agree, bunnies are complex! You'll get it eventually!

Thanks. My little girl has finally got her spirit back tonight

She's been so quiet for about 48 hours but tonight is racing around having her mad half hour as she usually does at this time. She hasn't touched a willow ball I bought for her this morning, she usually eats half of it within a few hours I don't know if I upset her putting her with Artie or upset her separating them again - maybe her head was just spinning at the pace of it all.

They both seem happy enough now Don't know if I'm brave enough to try again