need input on blue folks

today she got really stressed as soon as I put her on the fleece so I can meds her this morning and run at me I thought to cuddle but she started digging at my chest and when I wrapped her to give the syring meds she started eyes getting bigger and making a very slight whimper noise so as quick as I could I gave her metacam and zantac then unwrapped her and gave her cuddles she ran straight to her pen.

my thoughts are the ulcer is what is hurting her and being agitated when I am syringing so:
I try to syringe different sides but still the same she won't take pineapple juice so the acid in it must react to the ulcer (obvious I know)
she took another nuggie from my fingers this morning and ate it but only the one.

she is drinking independently so have made up her recovery mix in a bowl and put it in with her in the hope she will eat it ?
she is however eating some coriander and some dill and a little of woodlands clover and plantain leaf mix.

she is out and about as her usual self and lets me nose rub and kiss her too but she grinds very slightly on and off as I do that not sure if it's yes I like that or ahem off

my question is what can I do to get her eating her recovery from her bowl or do you think to just see how she goes over the next couple of days or carry on syringe feeds as she is eating some herbs etc but on and off throughout the day (she usually noms her herbs up instantly) ?

How much pain relief is she getting and how often? I think the dose for rabbits can be much, much higher than many people (including a lot of vets) expect so I wonder if it is not dulling the pain enough for her to eat comfortably.

she's on 4ml once a day but the vet said it's a low dosage for her

4ml

0.4 ml?

I'd ring the vet and ask whether the dose can be increased. I don't have any real experience of metacam so I don't know whether there would be any advantage in giving two smaller doses a day instead of one big one - another question worth asking the vet perhaps...

sorry I meant 0.4ml
thanks sparky

phoned vet and they said she's on the amount for 4kg bun and can't have any more but if she's the same in the morning to take her back in and they will hospitalise her but that's going to be very stressful for her as they said not in so many words she will be force fed if needed so am going to persevere with her but give an hour after metacam before I syringe recovery thus allowing the meds to kick in

Try giving her the syringe feed mixture off your fingers she may lick it off or try the mixture in a tablespoon and see if she will take it that way .

Sending her lot's of get well and calming Vibes xxx

ok I have tried everything and came to the conclusion that maybe it's me being soft on her and giving in too easy when she gets stressed and bluebell playing on it a bit
so I have just syringe fed her and ignored her stressing on me so when she realised that it's not working she grabbed the sringe and threw it out of my hand across the table
but I persisted and managed to get twice the amount as last time in her afterwards she just had a tantrum and bit a hole in my t shirt but at least it was not my skin

do you think she still loves me

BLUEBELL!

I'm sure she still loves you Rob

fiver wrote:phoned vet and they said she's on the amount for 4kg bun and can't have any more but if she's the same in the morning to take her back in and they will hospitalise her but that's going to be very stressful for her as they said not in so many words she will be force fed if needed so am going to persevere with her but give an hour after metacam before I syringe recovery thus allowing the meds to kick in

0.4 ml once a day is not the dose for a 4k bun rob.

Daisy is on 0.5 twice a day and he only weighs 1 k!

I would give her at east 1.2 twice a day. Buns need 3x as much as their kilo dose twice as often Hun.

Many vets don't give enough. This dosage came from John so I know it's right.

Am sticking my nose in over the metacam doseage as there is two versions that can be prescribed - one for dogs and one for cats. I tied myself in knots over this last week when Herbie needed some. I only had the cat version in the house which is three times as less concentrated as the dog one and I had previously given dog based doses. Depending on which is being used the amount given to a bun will vary.

As a guide a rabbit can be given 0.2-0.6mg of metacam per kg per 24 hours but I think higher doses can be used if a vet feels necessary.

Dog metacam contains 1.5mg/ml therefore a rabbit can have 0.133 - 0.4mls per kg per 24 hours.

Cat metacam contains 0.5mg/ml therefore a rabbit can have 0.4 - 1.2mls per kg per 24 hours.

If Blue is 4kg then she could have up to 1.6mls of the dog version or 4.8mls of the cat version every 24 hours.

Either way I think Blue should be on more than 0.4ml. Which type do you have Rob?

(To complicate things further if you want to use the kg doseage graduations on the metacam syringes provided instead of mls then a 1kg dog dose contains 0.1mg of metacam and a 1kg cat dose contains 0.05mg of metacam).

Katie, is the three times rule for the dog or cat version? This seems an easy way to work doseage out. I have a piece of paper with loads of calculations on. That's why I got in a tizz last week as I couldn't find it.

Katieb wrote:
0.4 ml once a day is not the dose for a 4k bun rob.

Daisy is on 0.5 twice a day and he only weighs 1 k!

I would give her at east 1.2 twice a day. Buns need 3x as much as their kilo dose twice as often Hun.

Many vets don't give enough. This dosage came from John so I know it's right.

Sixer wrote:Am sticking my nose in over the metacam doseage as there is two versions that can be prescribed - one for dogs and one for cats. I tied myself in knots over this last week when Herbie needed some. I only had the cat version in the house which is three times as less concentrated as the dog one and I had previously given dog based doses. Depending on which is being used the amount given to a bun will vary.

As a guide a rabbit can be given 0.2-0.6mg of metacam per kg per 24 hours but I think higher doses can be used if a vet feels necessary.

Dog metacam contains 1.5mg/ml therefore a rabbit can have 0.133 - 0.4mls per kg per 24 hours.

Cat metacam contains 0.5mg/ml therefore a rabbit can have 0.4 - 1.2mls per kg per 24 hours.

If Blue is 4kg then she could have up to 1.6mls of the dog version or 4.8mls of the cat version every 24 hours.

Either way I think Blue should be on more than 0.4ml. Which type do you have Rob?

(To complicate things further if you want to use the kg doseage graduations on the metacam syringes provided instead of mls then a 1kg dog dose contains 0.1mg of metacam and a 1kg cat dose contains 0.05mg of metacam).

Katie, is the three times rule for the dog or cat version? This seems an easy way to work doseage out. I have a piece of paper with loads of calculations on. That's why I got in a tizz last week as I couldn't find it.

I always knew Metacam was much higher than many vets think but I could never remember how much so thanks for posting this Katie and Sixer, I must remember just incase!!

I hope Blue is ok Rob, I do believe sometimes if you aren't hard enough on a bun or are unintentionally nervous or anxious, they pick up on it and may play on it. I honestly think Tigger is like that with me sometimes. Definitely something I need to work on with the strong headed little madam

thanks everyone,
sorry not on much so much is going on but blue is eating herbs bit by bit and since ive taken a stronger stance with her she is getting more recovery food which I am giving extra water with to make sure she stays hydrated
i'm more happy with her progress today as albeit small poos they are getting better shape and colour and getting bigger slowly and she is weeing well too.
she seems bright and still loves her strokes and kisses from me i'm expecting her to be eating independently hopefully in the next few day although she is independently eating some bits and pieces but am keeping an extremely close eye on her as I've got so far with her since I got her i'm not prepared for a dental op to make her just give in

additional:
just thought I would get the treat bag out to see if she is tempted and she was going crazy with excitement and she ate three treats she took them from my fingers with such eagerness would only get one normaly but if she is eating then wow she gets it

Aww bless her. Sending lots more vibes.

I think using a treat is a great way of gauging how they feel, and tbh if it just gets something in them as long as they aren't too rich, then that's a good thing.

I remember one weekend when I was away at my OH's my mum rang and said Tigger was refusing to eat anything and would only eat fenugreek crunchies. When I got home she resumed eating... She has my mum wrapped round her little paw!!

I think that's exactly where my buns especially blue at the mo has me
i'm just glad she's happy and eating some things

Oh absolutely, just got to keep that tummy going!!

you know strangely enough since I got her mouth watering over the treats she has now come out and been nibbling bits and pieces again

I am so glad she is better love, please give her a warm nose rub from her auntie Jo

Hugs

JO xx

I just gave her a big MWAH from auntie jo and she closed her eyes and did a tooth purr awwww

lots more vibes for bluebell

thank you all,
blue is not better by any means but is slowly improving and if she follows suite as last year after dentals will suddenly go back to normal in a blink of an eye but for now she is getting the very best care and attention I can give plus being spoilt rotten with oodles of hugs kisses attention and fave tit bits and at least is showing signs of improvement xx

Just to butt in late but I thought the general view is that the cat metacam is no good for buns - but I do not know why that is the case.

Like Daisy B Flo gets a large dose. She has up to 1ml a day and she is around 2kg. 1ml is equivalent to the 15kg dog dose! Currently because she is doing well I have reduced her to a 10kg dose.

I am glad to hear she is doing much better Rob.

I am confused I will admit I know that it's a metacam syringe quite a fat one and I was told to fill up to the mark with the number 4 so assume it's 0.4ml

No Rob that is 4kg of dog.

???? i'm not sure mine says for cats on the label,
why can't they bring out a pain killer specifically for buns if they can for dogs and cats it would simplify things