Any ideas?

Now Hercules (Eyes) has taken up squatters rights and is going to be a pernamant resident, thoughts are on how to make him permanent as he is currently in a temporary run in our front garde as he only came to stay for a few weeks, not the 5 months he has been or the life time he has planned.

I have a happy M/F newly paired pair Tor (Dillon) and Artemis-Athena, who live in luxury out in the back garden.

I have suggested to hubby we turn the front garden over to Eyes and make him a permanent run out there, however forever practical that he is says it would be impractical and too expensive to buy more posts and netting to permanise the front when we already have the back area which is due to be refurbished in the spring anyway, so why not make a division in the middle so they can have half each. As much as i dont want to cut down the space for hte other two, it does make sense and its not like they will be deprived of space exactly, it is quite a large area.

so thoughts led onto, i wonder if Eyes would (in time) get on with the other two....
personality wise, Dillon is so laid back he is almost flat, and Artemis is happy as long as she has her space to play in, although i am very aware this could change if either felt invaded or threatened.

Eyes, however, has a bit of a reputation and im not sure where the truth lies or what the situation really is.

He came form my brother in law, who on a few occasions decided to get a female partner for Eyes. As far as i know the introductions were done properly, but i cant be absolutely sure. The story goes as follows...the two rabbits seemed to get on for a few days, and no obviously apparent signs of disagreement between them, but after a few days the 'new' rabbit was found dead. This happened with 3 partners, as far as i am aware.

Since Eyes has come to live with us i have got to know him better, and to me, as a person he has really opened up to the fact that people are not just things that feed you and ignore you, they can actually be quite companionable. He will let me stroke him, cuddle him, and even does a little 'happy dance' binky round his small run in the evenings when its coming up to feed time now instead of just sitting and looking bored.

I have 3 cats, who are all used to my sociable rabbits, and when Eyes first came to stay one of them went into Eyes's run to say hello and was greeted by a very very aggressive Bunny, who did almost a handstand against the back of his hutch before charging out to chase poor unsuspecting cat out!

He does seem more nocturnal than some i have had, and spends lot of the day doing nothing and half sleeping. He has got used to his routine now of being shut in at night, and let out during the day, whereas before he had a covered run with food given to him most (probably not every) day and cleaned out very occasionally and nowhere near as often as he should.

All new rabbits were rescue rabbits from pets at home, as was Eyes originally.

i have been through a few theories of Eyes and his deceased partners, as follows

Maybe Eyes is a carrier of some disease that is affecting the others and not him, hence thier death.
Possible, but now Eyes has lived with me i havent disinfected myself between rabbits and use the same tools to clean them all out, so if there was something it would surely have been passed onto mine by now and they are fine.

Maybe the introductions were not done properly, always a possibility, ive only ever done it very slowly over time where they take turns in the same space until hey are ready to be watched together. i dont claim to be expert on it, but not having seen how it was done, i cant be sure.

Maybe the new rabbits were not kept well before they came to live with Eyes, maybe it was warm in the shop but too cold in their new home outside - they wouldnt have had any special concessions made for them. Also P@H do have a rather poor reputation for their keeping of animals healthy. I have heard on more than one occasion of their rabbits dying for no apparent reason.

Another theory i had was that Eyes was vaccinated, and new buns were not. Where they lived was full of wild rabbits so maybe new bunnies caught VHD and died of that suddenly. However apparently Eyes was not up to date with vaccinations (now on my to do list) and the new rabbits from P@H apparently were...

Or, maybe after all this Eyes is not suitable for living with other rabbits (remembering his reaction to nosey cat) and is quite happy on his own

So, any thoughts or ideas anyone?

Any suggestions as to what might have happend re all the above?

And, do you think it might be worth slowly, attempting to get the two parties used to each other? The way i would do it would be seperate hutches, and taking turns of run, thus getting used to sight and smell of each other?
Is this likely to work with two bucks and one female?

or maybe i should accept they wont get on and will need separate run areas?

all thoughts, suggestions, idea etc all very much welcome

Never thought to ask you before,  was there attack marks on the rabbits that died?  If it was eyes attacking them you'd expect some sign of damage.
Is the bro in law place prone to foxes?  just another theory rabbits could have felt trapped and eyes is just stronger willed than the others.
Sis lost three cocktails to an infection the first bird carried but wasn't transmitted via cleaning products they had to have close living quarters before it was passed on but you'd have to check with the vet for that one for eyes.

I have heard that 2males and a female are the best trio but I don't know how true that is. Is eyes neutered I personally wouldn't try two bucks if they weren't both neutered but I'm a beginner.

The half each sounds like a plan then maybe when they show signs of not bothering with each other then try chances each on the runs.

Xxx

Hi Gemma, as far as i am aware, there were no apparent marks on the buns that died - i will have to find out more

now that a theory i hadn't thought of, direct contact spreading something. Got me thinking now about if it would be a good idea to have him close to the others or not...

yes, both boys are neutered

im intrigued now to what rude word auto correct made lol!

Il email you the rude word later lol

The first cocktail had it and they bought him a buddy he died within days same with the second one a girl they then bought a third and the first one died turned out the first one had the bird equivalent of hepatitis and passed it onto the others, now the forth is traumatised with the treatment and will forever be on his own, but he living strong a wee fighter. Sounded similar to what is going on with eyes.

I would defiantly get him checked out with vet before putting him in direct contact with the other two, maybe have a foot or two between the runs.

Xxx

No signs of physical attack on the three partner buns is odd. Three dead rabbits without obvious signs of cause ... I would have had a most mortem done on the second, definitely the last. Were there any signs of distress on them at all... like constrictions that would point to respiratory failure or heart attack?

How long is a "few days"? A couple of days or a couple of weeks? How long had they been in with Eyes and did they chew on the hutch (and Eyes didn't) and maybe ingest toxic substances from the wood?

One way to check for transmittable disease is to get a blood sample from Eyes tested at a lab. This can be expensive: Henry's routine tests for liver/kidney function and other general things cost £54 but to test for toxoplasmosis and Ec cost £96. But it would answer a few questions and give you peace of mind about shared pen space.

I definitely would shy clear of trying an introduction with Dillon and A-A as they are so newly bonded.
I would get a thorough vet check and bloods done and concentrate on spending the winter developing your relationship and understanding with Eyes. I may be that he is one of those rabbits who can live happily without their own kind and a relationship with you would suffice.
Is there a chance he could become a houserabbit?

In this case I would usea course of pana cur on the new rabbit. Agree with the fact that 3 dead bunnies in short time seems odd and not sure whether a few food between their runs will be enough.
Are you RWAF member? If so get in touch with Ros and discuss the case.

c.bolduan wrote:In this case I would usea course of pana cur on the new rabbit. Agree with the fact that 3 dead bunnies in short time seems odd and not sure whether a few food between their runs will be enough.
Are you RWAF member? If so get in touch with Ros and discuss the case.

I'm not a member, but that again is on my to do list. Who is Ros?

I'm not sure if it was three or four.. i think third partnership was a pair, but also seem to remember something of one escaping, but not sure if it was found or not.

I think i need to find out more of what happened, we are doing dinner here on Monday, so will try and quiz them about it then.

Ros Lamb. She's been a life line to me over the past couple of years when first Loll and now Henry have had problems. She mans the RWAF Helpline.

woodwench wrote:Ros Lamb. She's been a life line to me over the past couple of years when first Loll and now Henry have had problems. She mans the RWAF Helpline.

ah, ok. wil have to think about membership. Not quite as skint as we were earlier in the year so might be able to think about membership now.

Im sure Ros would help you even if you are not a member, she is a lovely lady.

Have just looked up membership and will see how the finances go this fortnight, and hopefully will sign up.

Might try ringing anyway see if she has any ideas. On the surface he seems a happy healthy bunny, and it could just be the other buns were not 'man' enough to cope with deer, foxes and any other wildlife that came up to them in the night.

I will ask sister in law tomorrow if i get a chance see if i can get more idea of what might have happend.
I will find out if there was any sign of attack, or just how long they had them before they died. I know she did have a moan in a P@H branch, but think it wasnt actually the one she got them from...
It all seemd quite mysterious when it happend, so i would think they'd have noticed some sign of fighting, fur marks on either or both rabbits. Strange..

Hmmmm it is a worry for this little one though - How old would you say he is?

I dont know how old he is, He was a rescue bunny from Pets at home so presumably not a baby when they got him... they may have had him about 2 1/2 3 years now.
I will see what i can find out tomorrow when they are here for dinner. I shall interrogate lol