Bertie again, I'm afraid - u/d Back home & well

Jay wrote:John said hello btw

cool!

So pleased see him painfree and enjoying life again. Chronic pain is such a horrible thing and worse for an animal when it can't really easily let you know.

He look sjust stunnking in that picture. He is such a special bunny x

Catswhiskas wrote:He look sjust stunnking in that picture. He is such a special bunny x

I can't believe the change in this bunsta. I think he's been in varying degrees of pain for probably about 8 months, judging by the time we last saw him this energetic, with such a healthy appetite and poos. Paul said last night that his regret was not taking him to see John earlier, but you not gonna do everything exactly right with your first one are you? We all have to learn, and as much as I agree with Paul, and feel pretty sorry that we didn't do more investigation earlier, we can't undo it, and we have at least got the answers we needed, and waaay more importantly, our bun has come back

Thank-you all so much, your support has been a huge support to us xx

Just seen this Jay so glad Bertie is doing well that pic of him is stunning

With regards to the Metacam it is a risk that prolonged high doses can cause liver problems without the required fluid support to help flush toxins through and stabilise their condition but in day to day moderate use with a rabbit that has a healthy and fully functioning liver it shouldn'tpose a problem.

If he did start to show signs that his liver might be compromised however it would be worth have bloods taken to ascertain any level of risk that might be posed. I've only had one bunny I had to take off of Metacam after she started to bleed profusely coupled with some other clinical symptoms which made us suspect her liver was compromised.

Thanks Sooz, I spoke with John this morning, Berts is staying on the 10kg dose for the next week, we are then to reduce the dose slowly until we find the correct minimal dose. I will be in weekly contact with John to do this.

Again I asked about kidney problems and GI ulcerations. He said that the kidney problems were usually within rabbits that already had a weakness and that GI ulcerations were certainly a possibility, and we would need to monitor that.

He hopes to have Bertie on a mimimal dose soon, but thinks it likely that will be for the rest of his life. he spoke about his Vetinary oath to the welfare of animals, that their longevity is not as important as their health and welfare while they are alive, and he is more concerned about Bertie's pain threshold and relief right now than the longer term issues.

I have to admit I was slightly surprised by that, but I do understand what he means. It's a difficult thing to question people who are so well learned, but I did have a list of things I wanted answering and he di danswer all of them.

He supported some studies that show Glucosomine could help and suggested we try that, and also accupuncture, so I'll look into that too. I know an accupuncturist, who is training to practice on animals and has already offered to give Bertie a go.

Thanks for your help, your suggestions and contributions give me relevant and important things to discuss with him x

So pleased that Bertie is better, it's wonderful news, the web adress for the glucosomine

http://www.cures.uk.com/

i know its a dog, but bonnie has glucosamine and its worked wonders for her

Do you give Glucosomine as well as pain relief for dogs and/or buns ?

I don't think it is for pain relief. I think it helps the joints repair themselves, especially the cartilage. I took it when I did my knee really badly at TKD. A lot of athletes and people with arthritis take it regularly.

Thanks for the link Theo, it's on order

I think I was trying to say this and got a blockage along the way..

If the Glucosomine helps repair the damage, does the amount of pain relief he'll need come down, as the arthritis (as i see it) will be less inFlamatory, therefore causing less pain, anyone know?

I'm afraid I don't know as I've never used it but remember Metacam is an anti-inflammatory itself so does tackle some aspects of swelling and reduces pain in this way but I suspect, once ascertained, a therepeautic dose would need to be maintained at the same level to reap this added benefit.

My mum had quite bad arthritis in her hips and back. When she went anywhere really warm, she was able to walk around a lot more and have more fun. Once back in the cold and damp, her arthritis returned again and she was hampered again. I think that if the inflammation is held in check, there is less pain.

Thanks, that's interesting, I may ask John about it when i speak to him on Friday. The Glucosamine's on order, if it will help prevent or slow down the rate of progression, then that will be good if nothing else

Wow Jay, I've just caught up with this as I haven't been around much for a couple of weeks. So poor Bertie's had pain from arthritis? Gosh, it just shows you how GI issues can be caused by pain elsewhere. It's so hard to know what's wrong with our little bunsters, isn't it?

I'm sooo pleased that Bertie is much perkier, what a relief for you! Great news.

Thanks Helen, it's been quite a journey, we all feel sooo much more relaxed now
Hope you're OK, nice to see you