Re: Sprite's Complete Guidance Thread

[ElleyMay]

Nice to see you back!

I would say if you are interested in that male lop than you can definitely go for this! . You could take him on now and get a female anytime really (now or in the spring). If you get the female bun from a rescue than she will likely be neutered for you and the rescue organization may help you bond (or even do it for you)!

How exciting!

[Sprite]

Thanks ElleyMay, I have to say I was hoping that's what you'd say as he looks a cutie from the photos I've seen!!

So hopefully they will get on ok then I have to say I did have my heart set on a baby... for at least one of them... do you think they'd still get on ok if we end up getting a littlun?

xx

[Sprite]

...anybody?

[NickieM]

I got Wolfie as a companion for Holly. She was nearly 5 when I got him and he was a few months old. They got on just fine and the bonding was a breeze. She had been neutered, but he wasn't for a month or so.

After Holly died, we got another female bun as Wolfie's companion. She was spayed and although the bonding was harder and longer, they are the best of pals now and have lived together happily for nearly three years.

[Sprite]

Ooh, thanks Nickie, it sounds like it wouldn't be a problem getting a baby as his playmate then. After discussion with my OH and talking to my friend I think it's pretty set that we will have him I'm getting excited now!!

She doesnt move to her new place (the reason she cant keep him) until the 20th March so we have a few weeks to prepare. We have the hutch all built so it's a case of getting the bedding, food, etc and preferably the OH getting started on building a run for the garden...!

xx

[NickieM]

Looking forward to lots of photos.

[Sprite]

Hi all,

We are shopping today for supplies for our new little man

So I have a few questions... mainly about bedding. Should we line the hutch with newspaper, then just put hay in? Or sawdust and hay? I'm not too sure... dont want to get anything that might be bad for him.

Also what dry food mix is best? (Obviously I will give him fresh stuff as well.) There seem to be a lot of brands out there!!!!

Other than that... water bottle, food bowls, some toys... is there anything essential I haven't thought of?? xx

[Magoo]

Hi Sprite

Our bunny is a house bunny so if you are keeping your bunny outdoors the following housing info may not be too helpful as not sure about protecting from the cold etc. but I'll try my best.

I don't use sawdust as I've heard it can irritate their sensitive eyes. I used to use wood shavings which are not as fine but now I just use carpet at the bottom. Pippin loves to forage on the carpet and has picked up litter training well so he has never wee'd on the carpet (touch wood!) He has a litter tray in his home too which has a few layers of newspaper in and then is covered with hay.

I'm feeding Pippin Science Selective Pellets which he adores! I've only recently changed him to this afetr reading some bad stuff about the supermarket brands. Research well until you find one that suits you as you said, there are a lot of brands and it can all be a bit overwhelming!

I also keep bunny treats handy which have been particular helpful in training him especially at the beginning when he was so nervous. A little bit of bribary goes a long way;) Things like dried carrot and apple, my bunny loves. I advise avoiding the yogurty type treats. Because their not very good for bunny. I've also never had a bunny that has liked them!

I use a water bowl rather than a water bottle. Pippin just stopped drinking out of the bottle although it was working perfectly well and I read that bunnies prefer drinking from a bowl instead which makes sense I guess as it is much quicker. Toys are great as rabbits can get bored easily I find! Pippin has a ball and anything that they can push with their nose is a good idea. I make most of Pippin's toys (paper tubes, boxes etc) but have purchased a few baby toys from the charity shops (cheap as chips!) which he loves. Plastic toys that rattle are particularly good.

What about a bed for bunny? Just a box will do. I put a box in Pippin's cage and he has reconstructed it himself! He's bitten a hole through one side that is a tiny bit bigger than him. Rabbits love to rearrange. I think that's it from me but I'm sure others will offer some great advice:)

[Catsknickers]

For outdoor bunnies my personal preference is hay or straw in the nesting area, litter trays in corners (with wood based cat litter in them) and hay in a hay rack and in the litter tray to encourage them to use them. I don't line the wood of the hutches with anything.

An all in one pellet feed is best for your bunnies. That way they cannot selectively feed. Sawdust isn't a great idea as it can irrate the eyes and respiratory tract. IF you feel you want to put something on the hutch floors I would just suggest shredded paper. I use what I shred and get some from a friends office too. Great way to recycle!

Can't wait to see pics!

[NickieM]

Great to hear about your new bun. We definitely need to see some photos now.

In the summer I just line my hutches with newspaper and put 2 cat litter trays lines with newspaper and hay into the bed part. The buns do all their poos in the tray and I empty it out in the morning and refill it. They then go in and eat tons of hay, so it is win win. When they are outside their hutch, they have a corner where they like to do their business. I let it build up a bit and then scoop all the poos up and put them on the garden.

In the summer I put hay in both areas of the hutch for them to snuggle in, but other than that I don't use anything else. Woodshavings are not good if you have a lionhead like Gloria. The wood chips get tangled in her fluffy hovercraft skirt.

I just feed mine P@H pellets which they like. They get half a teacup between them and fresh hay in the morning, then some veggies at night. They also like a bowl, but this is in the run for during the day. At night they have a bottle.

[Sprite]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the advice so far. Our little man finally arrived last weekend!! He's gorgeous nice looking with some cute little habits! I will upload some pics this evening.

I have some more questions now that he's been with us for a few days and I have been able to see how things go.

The hutch we have is a two-tiered hutch with a ramp joining the two. This was new teritory for Marley (as he previously lived indoors) and it took him a while to discover the ramp. He now goes up and down a lot... but he does seem to find it a bit steep, and more slide down it than walk down it! OH has offered to make the treads a little bigger to make life easier for him, is this a good move or maybe unnecessary?

So far I have lined the hutch with wood shavings (although I probably wont buy any more when this runs out, as I missed the comment about it sometimes affecting their eyes before) and then straw over the top. One section "upstairs" is closed off and this I assumed would be his bed at night... however, we're not sure if he's actually sleeping in it, as he is always in the open part of the hutch when I go out to him early in the morning. What he IS doing is using this area as his toilet... I'm not sure why he's chosen this area to do his business, is there any way to encourage him to go elsewhere? There are a few poos all over, but mainly he goes in one area of his "bed".

Also a quick question... roughly how much should rabbits be drinking? As he hardly seems to be drinking at all. It's not an issue with using the drinks bottles, as I've tried putting in a dish of water and he doesnt seem very interested in that either. He seems ok/healthy just it seems very little water to be taking in!

Any advice appreciated xx

[Magoo]

Hi I'm really pleased you have Marley and cannot wait to see pictures of him! You must be very excited.

I don't know much about the ramp situation I'm afraid. Pippin has a platform that he jumps onto as jumping is great exericise for bunnies. If Marley does seem to find the ramp a bit steep then maybe make it less steep but it might jsut be that he needs a bit of time to get used to it and will adapt to it soon enough.

We have a dark hideaway for Pippin that is lined with carpet which we planned as his bed but he sleeps anywhere he feels like it! He doesnt really jump or run if he hears a noise now as he's so comfortable and relaxed he just takes it in his stride. But he does go in their during the day I guess when he just wants some quiet time. Is there lots of hay in Marley's 'upstairs' bed area? Bunnies like to poo and eat so if there is lots of hay he could be eating and then just naturally going to the toilet. We have a litter box filled with hay which he uses as his toilet. Maybe put hay in a corner and take hay away from his bed area (you could put a towel or blanket in there instead) and see if that makes any difference.

The question on drinking may depend on what Marley is eating. Generally, the more veg a bunny eats the less he will want/need to drink and the more hay he has the more thirsty he will be. You could try increasing the hay that Marley has, and if he eats it he might drink more water. I know lots of bunnies who are quite finnicky with their water consumption so you're not alone there!

I hope this helps in some way. If he seems happy and healthy I really wouldn't worry too much. I know that's easier said than done with bunnies though!

[Sprite]

Thanks magoo, that does answer some of my questions.

The ramp already runs most of the length of the hutch, so can't be any less steep. We'll give it a while longer and if he still seems to be struggling I'll let OH give it a bit more grip.

Yes, there is hay in his "bed". I'll try avoiding that! Might think about some sort of litter tray with hay in - quite honestly my friend said he likes to eat fresh hay each day but since he's been with us he hasn't seemed very interested in eating any hay. But then he is eating A LOT of fresh fruit and veg!! Which might explain the water also.

I thought about a piece or carpet in his bedding area for extra warmth, but as he seems to be weeing all over this would need taking out and washing I guess, so not sure if I can go for that. (OH has a bad hair/fur allergy and no bunny stuff can go into our washing machine)

I need to get him to a vet to see about vaccinations and also to arrange to have him neutered before we consider a new playmate for him... What are the best vaccinations for an outside bunny? I am happy to pay for whatever he needs but don't want to be encouraged to have everything under the sun by the vet if it's unneccesary!

xx

[Magoo]

Are you using the same hay as he was eating at his previous home? I have had ltos of problems with Pippin not eating hay and he is now eating ltos due to me decreasing his pellets and trying out different types of hay.

I agree with you about the carpets. If you think he might wee on it then bets to wait until he is trained or would be really hard to clean. Maybe just a blanet that could be hand washed if he did wee on it?

There are 2 vaccinations recommended for bunnies. A VHD one (Viral Haemorrhagic Disease) which is every year and a Myxomatosis one which is every 6 months.

[Sprite]

Ok then, I will need to book an appointment for him for those.

At the moment he seems not to be trained at all toilet wise... wees and poos wherever, in both hutch and run. I can't understand this as with my friend he came out his cage and about the house and as far as I know he only ever went in his cage.

He also seems quite nervous. He's happy to be stroked but hates to be picked up as soon as he feels himself being lifted he panics and starts to kick/scrabble. I can lift him into my arms or lay him on my chest and he will sit still, but he is shaking and his heart's beating really fast. He also sometimes tries to scrabble up over my shoulder to escape. I pick him up to transfer him from his hutch to run and back, but not much otherwise. On the one hand I wonder if this is the way to help get him used to it, but I don't like knowing I'm making him scared. (He was a little nervy being picked up by my friend but not as bad as he is with me.) x

[Magoo]

He could be weeing and pooing everywhere now just because he needs to adjust to a new place and a new guardian. I have read however that toilet training bunnies is extremely hard until after they have been neautered as they are hormonal beforehand and prone to destruction and little 'accidents'.

I understand what you mean about Marley being picked up. I had to take Pippin to the vets for the first time a few weeks back and wrote in here about how I was to do it as I never pick Pippin up! I know it scares him and from the moment he came to us I never tried to pick him up. His cage is in our lounge so whenever he comes out I just open the door and he runs around and goes back in when he sees me bringing his evening veggies to him. There has never been any need to pick him up. I did try recently but he kicks and makes a funny noise so I won't be trying again! I know he haes it so I won't do it until I need to. A few HH members told me to wrap him in a towel. I haven't tried this yet but I have read that it is very effective. Wrap a towel under his chin to stop him kicking. I can't explain it well but you could google 'bunny burito' and a video should pop up.

Don;t worry about Marley beign nervus of you. It takes a long while to earn the trust of a bunny. Pippin ahs been with us since february and sometimes he is still nervous of me. But he is more trusting every day and Marley will be the same. Give him time and your never ending love and respect and he will come around

[NickieM]

You could try training him to hop into a crate to transport him from run to hutch, but you would need to be sure he wouldn't jump out during transfer. He might like that better than being picked up.

Rabbits instinctively get scared if something holds them and lifts them. They equate this with being caught by a predator. Some rabbits get used to this, but some never do. When I need to catch mine for the vet, I usually catch them in their hutch with a towel over the head then lift them out. If their sight is covered, they relax a little as they think that if they can't see, no-one can see them.

Don't worry about Marley not sleeping in his 'bed. Humans haven't really asked rabbits where they like to sleep when they design hutches! Mine just lie about in their living room and do their toilet in their bed. I use cat litter trays in the bedroom. They are emptied in the morning and filled with newspaper and fresh hay. The buns then eat loads and poo at the same time - a bit like reading the daily rag on the loo!

[Sprite]

Hey everyone,

A little update on how he's doing now he's been with us a month.

He's had both his jabs now, he had his second (VHD) this morning and is booked in for his op on 15th June!! Bless him he's a nervy little man when I take him to the vet, he shakes like a leaf.

He has settled into a routine more now - both myself and OH have got more used to picking him up now in a way he doesn't seem to mind. He's funny though, he doesn't struggle until we get within a few feet of the hutch/run then he goes mad, it's like he sees and recognises it and is eager to get put down.

He still uses his bed as his toilet and leaves the rest of the hutch clean, but I will wait til after his op and see if I can encourage different behaviour then.

xx

[Sprite]

Hi all,

Its been a while since I've posted and since then Marley has had both his vaccinations and his op, which all went smoothly. Since the op his behaviour and habits havent changed one bit - he was his same old self from the moment I picked him up from the vet; frankly you'd never know that it had been done.

He is still not very keen on being picked up, although I think he has become more used to me - although he gives me a bit of a run around when I go to pick him up, hes pretty still in my arms now. I feel a lot more confident in picking him up and carrying him, and I think maybe he is able to sense this and feels safer. (That or I'm just better at it!) My partner doesnt usually pick him up as he has allergies to hair/fur, but on the occasion he needs to Marley struggles more like he used to for me. So I'd like to think that I've made some headway!!

His personality definately shows through more now which is nice - hes more inquisitive, and knows when I am bringing food to him and has some really funny little habits.

I do have a couple of concerns though - the last couple of weeks I have noticed that his droppings are different. They have previously been hard (ish!) seperate droppings, which he usually recycles and eats again. But recently they have been more soft, moist-looking droppings in clusters, which is attracting flies. He is not eating them either so they are getting squashed into the floor of his run and making it dirty and unsightly. His diet has remained the same... I notice he is drinking a lot more lately, but this is probably due to the heat and this increased a while before the droppings changed. I cant think of anything he eats that might do this, and his behaviour hasnt changed, he seems his usual happy self. Should I be concerned? Any advice would be appreciated!

Secondly the last few days he has begun malting like crazy (although why this should start now, when the weather has cooled, I dont know!) I have a brush I got for him and I've tried grooming him but he HATES it! He runs away and gets very scared when I try to brush him, and I have taken to trying to brush it out with my hands instead...! Any tips on this would also be good. Thanks! xx

[NickieM]

The clusters of pellets sound like his night pellets as they are like bunches of wee grapes and are coated in a sticky mucus which the buns need as it helps with their digestion. Usually excess caecal pellets are a product of too much food and it might be that he is getting too much pellets to eat and not enough hay. Hay should be the majority of their food as they need the roughage for their gut, with pellets and some greens just providing the icing on the cake to ensure they get enough nutrients.

I feed my buns (between two) a half tea cup of pellets in the morning and in the evening they usually get three different kinds of veg. Say, two Spring Green leaves, two thirds of a carrot and two thirds of a pepper. (I have three rabbits so split everything three ways). Other than that, they have plenty of hay and they are outside in their compound all day and evening.

How much are your feeding Marley?

[Sprite]

Ok thanks Nickie, that actually sounds like that might be it. When I got him and he started living outside (at his previous home he was inside only) the vet said to me to beware of allowing him too much pellet food or fresh veg etc, and that most of his daily intake should be, as you say, hay/fresh grass. So I cut down a little on what I was giving him then, and have since cut down further since he had his op, as I read that they are more prone to becoming overweight once neutered.

Currently I put him out in the daytime in his run, where he spends between 8 and 12 hours a day (unless the weather is really horrid when I leave him in his hutch) and when hes out I keep his hay rack stocked and he has only that, the grass that he eats, and the odd dandelion.

At night time I fill his little bowl with pellet food, which I fill probably about half full, and he always has a pile of hay. The problem is he doesnt seem interested in the hay really - he does eat it, but if there is pellet food to be had (or fresh stuff) he'll go for that, like the hay is his last choice lol! When i put down the pellets he eats like hes been starved for a week so I figured it was probably about the right amount - should I cut this down? Hes probably having about half a teacup, put out each evening (it is always gone by morning).

Fresh fruit and veg I give him only as treats now, he used to have a lot more but now just has it here and there as I realised the hay wasnt getting eaten and wanted to encourage it... x

[NickieM]

Mine would eat my arm off for pellets. They just adore them, but they are not good for them in huge amounts. A friend of mine just fills up her buns' bowls all the time and they are HUGE. Buns should be lean and will react to food like a starving child with a full-on guilt trip to you. Do not be taken in.

If they have plenty of hay they will not starve and it will be much better for them. They need hay to help grind down their teeth. Pellets don't have enough fibre and are eaten too quickly to help keep their molars under control. Hay and grass makes them work and stops their teeth getting out of control and keeps their gut working nicely.

If you have a look at the side of your brand of pellets there will be a guide to how much per kilo to feed. Measure this out on scales and then put it into something so you get a visual of how much that amount looks like. You will be surprised that it isn't a big amount. Pellets are there to make sure buns get the nutrients and minerals they need, but they shouldn't be the mainstay of your rabbit's food.

Mine get some veg at bedtime - basically to get the little ******* to go in their hutch at night. Too much veg can make their poops runny but they do need and enjoy it and when the weather is hot, veg gives them some fluid too.

[NSD]

Buns should be lean and will react to food like a starving child with a full-on guilt trip to you. Do not be taken in.

This is VERY true - my largest bunny is perhaps the best at convincing people he is starving to death - my mum says that he reacts like a heroin addict when he detects that you have pellets.

Mine get some veg at bedtime - basically to get the little ******* to go in their hutch at night. Too much veg can make their poops runny but they do need and enjoy it and when the weather is hot, veg gives them some fluid too.

Mine get veggies once a day in the morning, and fresh hay in the morning and at night. I usually book their vet appointments in the morning so that i can grab them while they're distracted by the food. Some celery - although not too much - is good to boosting their water intake if you are worried about that.

They are on a hay and fresh vegies diet only - pellets are only when they are VERY good (like they've been ill or had a bad experience at the vets). This might be something you will be interested in. I don't increase the vegies that much - it mainly just encourages them to eat more hay and results in better digestion / better teeth.

[Sprite]

I have been wary of fresh foods since I read about the water content can give them upset tummies (isnt that why lettuce is off the menu?) and because the vet has twice warned me about giving too much to him...!

Maybe I'll try just hay and fresh food for a few days and see how he goes? I notice that he does eat quite a bit of grass when hes in his run in the daytime, but is very unenthusiastic about the hay that is there for him!

NSD, when you say you give vegies in the morning, how much/what do you give?

xx

[NSD]

at my local supermarket they sell parsley, endive and corriander in bunches. So i give them one bunch between the two of them every morning. Sometimes i mix up the vegies but still give them about a bunch between them. If you stick to herbs and stay away from celery and lettuce and don't give them too much their poo should be ok. The bunches are not very thick- maybe the size of a skinny pencil case?

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