Bonding 2 female rabbits back again post spaying

Hi
I hope someone can help us with this. We have two female rabbits approx 9 months old which were rescue rabbits. Ever since we first had them they have been the best of friends. We had them both spayed last week at the same time hoping this would not break their bond. Due to the fact that they were trying to hump one another at times prior to their op we decided that for the first couple of days / nights to cage them both. They are indoor rabbits and have never been caged since we first brought them home together. When they were both a bit more alert post op we tried putting them in the same cage but there were signs of aggression and we quickly got one out of the cage before any fighting took place. We tried again once more with the same result. Today we tried putting them in the bath together as we had to do this once before as there seemed to be a brief falling out prior to spaying which was indeed fixed by being put in the bath together. However today this did not work and they began to show aggression which we broke up ... we tried a couple of times but in the end they both started going for each other the minute we removed the towels from over them (which we had done to break up the fighting). We only have a medium size carry case and are worried that if we put them both in there they could seriously hurt each other before we could remove one of them. They both love the hoover so this wouldn't be a good way of frightening them.

Has this happened to anyone else before and do you have any advice please ? Everything I have read really revolves around bonding a male and a female who are new to each other .... I cant find anything relating closely to our present situation. We have currently divided the front room into two sections where they cant see each other ... on a night they are both put into their own cages and placed next to one another in our bedroom - where they show slight interest to each other but no more. Prior to the op their usual place to live mostly was under our bed and we had their water, hay, litter tray and food in here too. They really were so close that it is heart breaking to see.

Any advice needed and welcome please. Cheers Flick

Could you give us a few more details:

*How long ago were they spayed now?
*How long have they lived together?
*Are they related?

Welcome to HH by the way

Hi thanks for the reply and welcome

They were spayed 8 days ago now. When we got them from the rescue place they were in the same cage (unknown whether same litter/ how long they were there before we got them) we collected them at the beginning of January this year.
As mentioned before we have no idea if they are related - we think so as quite similar markings yet very different personalities lol

Ok, well, from my own experience it is quite common for hormonal issues to get worse before they get better following a neuter and it does take time for the effects to really be seen. Also, this time of year is not great for bonding in general as it's prime breeding season, so most rabbits get a little competitive and frisky. Even neutered rabbits still react to a change in the seasons, I have just brought my trio in and found my doe trying to mount one of my bucks....they were both neutered about 3 years ago!

I would suggest you give them a little longer to try and recover from the procedure and settle down again a bit. I would wait at least 2 weeks but be prepared to stretch to 4. I would however continue to let them see/smell each other as they have been close before and it may just be a case of slowly letting them get used to each other again and realise they do not pose a threat.

Are they free ranging house rabbits? If so it will be important to not let them get a claim on individual areas of the house as 'theirs'.

Hi thanks for that reply ... we were hoping that maybe in time their hormones would settle down and we could get their friendship back. Yes they are free range house rabbits and at present are not in their normal space of the flat ... they normally mainly reside under our bed and this is where the litter tray, food, water, hay, tunnels are for them. At present during the day they have their own half of the front room which neither really had any claim on prior to their op only on a night do we cage them and put them in the bedroom next to each other - I have to say that they dont show any aggression when in their cages next to each other - they have in the past night or so started to put their noses together through the cages - both in a relaxed manner.

Prior to their op Mia tended to think she was the boss then there was a little shift in the power balance and Evie was less the dominated more perhaps an equal as she started to hump Mia. When we had them in the bath today Mia groomed Evie a little bit and then put her head down for Evie to groom her but Evie did not respond. This then led to the almost fighting at which point we intervened.

Thanks for the reassurance we do hope that in time they will be friends

not sure how to post a photo directly on to here so here are some links to a couple of their photos

https://2img.net/h/i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/epicondylitis/EandM.jpg

https://2img.net/h/i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/epicondylitis/021.jpg


this is a photo of Cecil our first little rabbit who died last November RIP little man
https://2img.net/h/i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3/epicondylitis/071.jpg

We now have a metal cage type thing dividing up the front room so that they can see and hear each other. This we thought had improved things but after a couple of minutes sniffing each other, when they push their heads through the gaps, Mia seems to bite / nip (hard to tell which) Evie. Is this normal ? Should we let this happen through the cage / fence thing as they cannot really hurt each other through this.

They are now 16 days post spaying and we are wondering how long to leave it before trying to put them in the bath again as dont want to risk their post op recovery.

Also with putting them into their carrier together - is there no risk that they will fight in there ? As it is not very big I would hate for them to fight each other and hurt one or the other before I have had a chance to seperate them.

Hi hun,

How are things going now?

Are they getting along any better?

PS they are gorgeous gorgeous buns!!!

xxXX

Hi
well this afternnon we tried for the first time putting them together. We put them in a brand new pet carrier (as Evie had laid claim to their old one after their op) and carried them around in that (despite some mad looks from people) they cuddled up together and there were no signs of aggression from either of them. We kept them in there for about 10 - 15 mins then Evie did a wee so we then went into the bathroom with them. The bathroom being neutral and neither have been in there before. All seemed to be going well for about 10 mins then Mia groomed Evie and waitied to be groomed in return. Evie wouldn't groom her so then they squared up to fight at this point we covered each in a towel and returned them to their own half of the front room. We have just come back in after a couple of hours out and both were lying close to each other in their own half of the front room (divided by a metal fence type structure).

So we think this is progress - but are we right ? Next time should we let them fight a little to see if this helps develop their heirarchy ? Mia previously was sort of the boss and we think she wont ever accept not being the boss. We're not sure Evie will accept this now she seems to want to be the boss. Is there anything we can do to help this along ?

When should we try again ? Is tomorrow too soon ? Should we repeat the same thing ? Place them in the carrier and then try again in the bathroom ?

How are things with your bunnys ?

Hi hun,

Im no expert by any means but I do know from reading lots on this site that it can take time and a lot of patience and persistence when bonding buns.
It does sound like you are making progress though.

I really dont think letting them scrap is the way to go at all though. The weaker bun will just become frightened. The aim is for them not to see each other as a threat so they dont become defensive and therefore fight. They need to build some trust with each other.

You are doing the right thing with neutral territory and I definately think you that you should try again tomorrow.

Good Luck

Keep us updated.

Also hun, feel free to post in any of the posts, its always nice to have a new hopper!

Sending nose rubs to the gorgeous but naughty pair!!

So today we placed them in their carrier and carried them around for probably 10 minutes and then we returned to the bathroom where we stayed for about 2 - 2 1/2 hours until a semi serious fight looked about to develop. Mia started out in one corner Evie the other but eventually they did move nearer each other.

Mia groomed Evie but this was not returned - previously this is when the trouble started so I started stroking them and talking to them and this seemed to release any tension.

There was some nipping and a little chasing of sorts but we let them get on with it to see what would happen and it didn't amount to anything. They did start ignoring each other after a little while so I just sat on the floor reducing the amount of space they had.

We have now placed them in each other's half of the front room as we read that this can further help bond them and get them used to each other's smell etc - and since being put there they have been fairly friendly through the fence to each other.

So more progress today I am pleased to say. Whilst it wasn't much fun for us being stuck in the bathroom for 2 1/2 hours it was good to see that they could get on as last time they started to fight after about 10 minutes.

We plan to try again tomorrow evening when we both get in from work

Good Work....Some progress is good progress! keep us updated!

ok well things haven't really moved forward - I start by putting them in the new carrier I got and Evie tends to wash Mia in there (which is how things used to be and we thought this was a really good sign) and I tend to leave them in there for a while and they are fine in there. Then we tried them in a very large box - which had had the carrier in and therefore was neutral but they started fighting. I tried a small space in the bedroom which was both their space and never any fighting over - bhut they started fighing in there. I have tried the sofa but they had a fight, I have tried creating a neutral small space on floor in front room but they started fighting in there too. I dont really have anywhere else to try ... but when they are in their cages or in their own half of divided front room they show signs of being friends and then there is the Evie grooming Mia whilst in the carrier .... I'm running out of ideas with them

Don't let them have too much space because they will just stay in their own little area and get defensive about that space. When they are in the bathroom together, you can try putting down some nibbles to see if they will concentrate on the food and each side by side without fighting. There will be a certain amount of nipping and chasing, possibly with the odd clump of hair pulled out, but full locked-on fighting is a no no. You might also get a lot of humping as they try to find out who is dominant - and there might not be a dominant bun.

When they are in their own area, with familiar smells, they probably calm down and will be more friendly. When they are in an unfamiliar area and have to deal with another rabbit, they will be more stressed and react differently. If they start ignoring each other, that is a sign that they are starting to stop seeing each other as a threat. You need to be patient as it can sometimes take a while - they can be stubborn!