Bonding - a stressful event! U/D - pair separated :(

So we found a lovely little wifey bun for our neutered male. Having had her spayed both of them went to stay with our rabbit sitter who has done the bonding for us. I have picked them up tonight. She did say there had been a bit of fur pulling and chasing but nothing too serious and nothing to worry about.

I have deposited them in the hutch that used to solely belong to Mr Bun but has of course been disinfected and scrubbed from top to bottom. Mrs bun started off following him around. But he just tries to escape and then ultimately chases her and tries to climb on top of her. He even climbed over her head at one point rather than go round her and he is having a good old stamp!

So now, she is upstairs, he is downstairs (mainly thumping but did lie down with a flat head at one point).

He was on his own for a long time, they did stay together the last 3 nights at our rabbit sitter's house. How long might this go on for? Could he maybe just be happier on his own cos that is what he is used to?? I have left them to it and come inside and am hoping they will settle down. Our bonding lady did say to call her with any problems but I don't think she meant within an hour of picking them up. I have only ever had one rabbit so am not used to all this.

Any words of wisdom, advice or encouragement would be greatly appreciated. He was so loving and happy before and I am worried I have just made 2 buns unhappy instead which is the complete opposite of what I was trying to achieve!

If they aren't full on fighting then I wouldn't worry too much. My two always chase each other and Tigger (girl) loves to hump her husbuns head.

Thanks Dotdot.
I haven't seen a full on rabbit fight before which makes it harder to judge. So far I have just seen very manic chasing. I went out a few minutes ago and they were really going for it so I tried to stop them and then stroked them both to calm them down a bit. The thumping (from him) continued and now we have had about 5 minutes thump free. I am really glad right now that I didn't try and do the initial bonding phase myself. I don't think I would be very good at it if I am freaking out over this!
Looks like the neighbours may not get much sleep tonight!

They are just trying to sort out who is boss. The boss will hump the other one and the submissive will either accept it's place ora fight will break out. You will know a fight, it's horrid. They lock together in a squirming mass and fur really does fly. Fear is another sound that is horrid, when a rabbit screams in terror that too is awful.
It's their first night, they may have been better placed indoors in a neutral pen where you can keep an eye on them. Is it possible to do this? Maybe his hutch isn't neutral enough at this time even though you have scrubbed it.

Be careful if he is humping her head, incase she bites his genitals.

How are they at the moment?

i agree you will know a full on fight
my flopsy and saisy were together then one day daisy had flopsy on the floor with her teeth and poor flopsy screamed i seperated them straight away and even now they try to box each other through bars or netting when they are outside
i think your's could be re afferming the pecking order due to
1 moving back to your home (new territory as a couple)
2 moving in together in the other one's hutch (was the other rabbits domain first)
give them a little time i would say but keep a close eye on them.
hope all goes well..x

Thanks guys You are all wonderful and really helping me feel better about it!

I don't really have a neutral pen unless we move the outdoor run in the house and that too used to be his.
They have done 3 nights in a hutch together before they came home though.

He hasn't really tried to hump her head, it was just one time that he climbed over her.

Things seemed to have quietened down now. I've not heard a thump for a good half an hour. I don't know whether going back out will whip them back up again. But they will need some veg or something soon.

Thanks again guys

It's difficult isn't it, I do sympathise. I have always been very lucky with my bonds, and they got along great from the start. I guess tonight will be the teller. I used a run in the house that had belonged to the doe and she was fine with the male being in it. A different environment throws them off scent I think. I don't know if this helps, but in my trios it is the buck who is ultimatley the boss, one of the does in each trio often looks like she is boss but when it comes to the crunch, it is the buck who steps up. In the same way, they demand and expected to be groomed by me and won't do it back but they know that I am boss and when i raise my voice I mean it (they are like naughty children sometimes, especially Vince )

Keep us posted, and if you need any more support, let us know. I hope tonight goes well

Thank you!

I have just taken them some veggies - she was upstairs, he was downstairs (I swear they were both down when I was getting veggies ready but she is all black so very hard to see at night!)
So I put some in front of her, some in front of him and some in another bit of the hutch. They both got stuck in straight away and now she appears to have gone downstairs to visit him - hopefully all good signs! Thingies crossed!

Thanks again everyone.

Spoke too soon about the thumping!

She is going around her new pad saying, 'and we need to decorate, and that carpet has GOT to go ...... ' No wonder he is thumping!!

It sounds like they are doing well and are just getting to know each other.

Believe me, you will definitely know a full-on fight!! My pair just can't abide each other and have to be kept apart. Fur literally flies when they are together. I am hoping that they will slowly get to like each other but it will be a long slow slog and it may just never happen.

How did it go last night?

Full on fights are when the rabbits come together almost like a ying yang sign head to tail curled around each other. It is incredibly noisy as there will be much growling and grunting and they will be out for blood. Chasing and fur pulling at the tail end is actually quite neutral behaviour.

Sometimes you just need to give them time and believe that they will sort themselves out.

Sasha absolutely HATES Barley. She has even pulled out lumps of his fur by leaning through his bars. He stupidly comes over to rub noses and she strikes! He has a little bald forehead because of it. She even grabs his bum if he leans against the bars. (She only does this when she is out for a bit of free time as there is a double wall between them for obvious reasons!)

They are complicated little fellas aren't they!!

They seemed to calm down last night in the end and this morning the table had turned and she was chasing him. Our bonding lady said this happened when they were with her and she-bun ended up grooming Mr bun. My husband said there were some nose sniffs and licks whilst I was at work and no thumping.

However, I have just got home and been out to see them, picked him up and tipped him to have a little check he was ok. And I think she has bitten his bits and bobs There is a red area, it doesn't look bloody and he is eating and hopping about ok but it does look a bit swollen and sore.

Do I need to ring out of hours vets? I will def try and take him in the morning, should I separate them in the meantime? I really am doubting my decision to get him a mate now! He was happy as he was I think.

kitkatmoo wrote:They are complicated little fellas aren't they!!

They seemed to calm down last night in the end and this morning the table had turned and she was chasing him. Our bonding lady said this happened when they were with her and she-bun ended up grooming Mr bun. My husband said there were some nose sniffs and licks whilst I was at work and no thumping.

However, I have just got home and been out to see them, picked him up and tipped him to have a little check he was ok. And I think she has bitten his bits and bobs There is a red area, it doesn't look bloody and he is eating and hopping about ok but it does look a bit swollen and sore.

Do I need to ring out of hours vets? I will def try and take him in the morning, should I separate them in the meantime? I really am doubting my decision to get him a mate now! He was happy as he was I think.

I think most people have this thought during bonding when you have had a lone bun for a while. It took 6 months with Bruce and Flo and every day since he took her to see his hutch (seriously he did) I have found that they grow a little closer. I don't regret all the stress now. And Bruce seriously damaged her along the way, but completely by accident. But now they adore each other.

I think someone has their mean and nasty head on LOL!! Seriously love, I hope you do get them to bond, it is very distressing when you are doing all you can and it doesn't work. Please keep us posted.
Hugs

JO xx

SO we took out little man to the vet's this morning and have been told to separate them until his bite wound has healed I realise this means if we do try to get them back together we will be starting bonding all over again!

The vet also found another lump on him which he first wondered if was from another bite, then thought it was a testicle (doubtful - he was altered years ago) and then said it is likely a skin growth and just to keep an eye on it.

We have been given pain meds and antibiotics and are to go back on Monday. Poor little man, he is still eating etc but it looks a right old mess.

And poor she-bun, she is now all alone in the outside hutch and hates being picked up so we would struggle to bring her in for hooman social time, she barely tolerates being stroked!

Thanks for the kind words and advice everyone. xx Let's hope he makes a speedy recovery and the big lump is nothing other than what the vet thought.

Do you have the space and enough pen material to give them indoor pens side by side? It would be much better to do that and maintain *some* contact between them, plus she is more likely to get used to you. You'd have the opportunity to allow her out and just sit on the floor ignoring her to give her a chance to suss you out. Most buns hate being picked up but will often be quite social with humans when they are at floor level. Especially if they have a small handful of something tasty


Don't be too disheartened - Gizmo and I had a huge falling out about a week after we first started living together - you can read about it here: https://happyhoppers.forumotion.co.uk/t17105-i-m-in-disgrace

And then we had a reconciliation: https://happyhoppers.forumotion.co.uk/t17319-humum-is-quite-pleased

agree with the others,you will know if its a full on fight,spike and snowflake had a massive fall out back in may,it scared the life out of me,i managed to tape a little bit as i wasnt sure if they were fighting or playing but they were proper going for it,heres the video



really hope he recovers very soon and you can try again

Maybe they just aren't suited? Was he tried with any other does before this one was picked?

I think putting them together but seperated by a panel to maintain contact is a good idea whilst he is healing. Nerve wracking isn't it!

My two chased for a few days and there was fur pulling but mainly because Fiver was grabbing Xena's scruff whilst humping her and when she pulled away he ended up with a mouthful of fur. It is nerve wracking but if it was me I would have them in a neutral pen inside where I could watch them 24/7.
I had mine in a pen in the conservatory, this was somewhere neither had been and at night I separated them (mainly because Fiver wouldn't stop humping Xena) but so that they could see and touch each other through bars. They still chase each other at feeding times but they are most definitely bonded!
Injuries to the genitals are quite common during bonding (or so I've heard). Fiver had sore "bits" where Xena had nipped him, I just left it and kept an eye on him. The next day it was fine so I never separated them.
I hope it goes well and I would definitely not separate them completely, if they can still see each other there is more chance of the bond continuing

Sasha and Barley live side by side at the moment. I have tried them together twice but they both instantly start to fight and it is like the clip of video. It isn't nice to watch and very frightening.

The make things worse, Barley had a bad experience with a previous home when he was adopted before he was neutered and then paired with another unneutered male. Naturally, it was not a good experience and he was returned and had to have stitches in his nose.

Sasha is a very dominant female and he is just scared of his shadow so it is a bad combination. If he could trust her and let her be boss it would be OK.

When they have a big of run around time outside, they both hang around the other's pen although when Barley is out, Sasha does chase him in her cage a grunt at him but she is mainly reacting to his running. He does binkies around her and so does she! Both just mad.