Please may we have some vibes...

This is really cheeky of us because things have been hectic here and we haven't been on the forum as much. We have tried bonding Myrtle in neutral territory with a gorgeous young rabbit who we called Patch. Although we knew it would be tricky to bond Myrtle with another bun, and they seemed to be getting on ok, we are questioning ourselves as to whether we are doing the right thing as tonight Patch is at the vet's needing stitches to a nasty wound caused by Myrtle. We feel really bad as we tried to bond him with Myrtle, and he is such a tame, easy-going bun, he didn't deserve this We hope he will be ok. We feel so awful and upset that this has happened to him

it's not cheeky at all and don't feel bad you did not know this would happen.
rabbits like us don't get on with everybody i would keep them apart at least for a while and maybe try slowly re introduceing them on neutral territory while supervised .
many mega vibes for patch
AND welcome back

These things happen. When I was bonding with Gizmo, the only one who ended up bleeding was my Humum but it could easily have been one of us at the vets.

Lots and lots of vibes for Patch

What stage were you at with bonding? I'm a 'difficult' bun too. I seemed to be getting on ok with Gizmo then had a huge falling out with him a week or so later. We ended up in side-by-side pens for ages before being very gradually re-introduced. And now he is my snuggly pillow

It can be tough, there can be wounds, but it is definitely worth it. Let us know if we can help at all

Thank you for replying, Fiver and Sparky. It gives us hope that we can salvage the situation. It's tricky to be positive right now, probably because we spent forever trying to decide if bonding our 'Jekyll-and-Hyde' Myrtle was the right thing to do, and now seeing our worries become a reality for a poor innocent bun has been really rough. Myrtle is angry at us too, going from being the centre of attention to having to share a different space (not of her choosing) with another rabbit.

We have decided to try again but keep Myrtle and Patch well apart from each other whilst we are at work. We think that for a while, under supervision (and separated by a homemade wire gate!), they can hopefully get used to each other and learn to trust each other. We just need to sort out their new living arrangements. We hope Patch will pull through and be able to trust Myrtle, as she is starting to come round. We think she is confused and struggling. And Patch has stolen our hearts too!

Thank you again

Hi there,

It's not cheeky at all - its what we are here for.

I wouldn't lose hope just yet - I can't add anything more than sparky has bu I'm sending him lots of love xxxx

This all sounds very familiar to me.

When Bruce and Flo were bonding Flo ended up with a gaping split in her skin all the way down the inside of one hind leg. It was very expensive to fix and the vet told me there was a real chance it wouldn't heal. It did.

Flo is a nightmare bun. She assumes everyone is going to attack her and tries to get one in first. It took 6 months of patience and frayed nerves to bond them. Just trying them together every day for short periods. I had their hutches on an L shape with a run set up between the two. One hutch was 7ft x3ft x 3ft and the other a double storey 4 footer. I would swap the buns in their hutches daily but only cleaned the litter trays every other day to get them used to each other's smells. They got half a day in the run each and were both closed away at night. The time together was had in the kitchen where I could keep an eye on them. They scrapped most days but not as bad as the day Flo got injured. One day something just changed between them. Bruce pottered off to the hutches and Flo followed. And that was that. So my message is to bear with them and not to despair too much.

Try to stay calm. If you are worried about fighting then they are more likely to fight because they pick up on your vibes. Turn the radio on or watch the tv at the same time as it will help to distract you and them. Provide lots of different points to eat hay so they don't have to fight over it. Try feeding with a treatball to get them working together for food and not against each other.

Sending lots of 'quick healing' Vibes for Patch xxxxxxxxx

Don't worry I know it's not nice and you end up feeling so guilty and upset but it does happen. If we have trouble bonding a pair we usually put their indoor cages and pens next to each other for a couple of weeks so they can get use to each other and then we will try again, don't give up as it will work, some bonding's happen the same day and some can take week's

Sending healing and bonding vibes for your precious bunbuns!

Lots of love to you all on its way love.

Hugs

JOxx

Sending lots of bonding vibes to Myrtle and Patch!

thank you all so much for the vibes The vets were a bit delayed in treating Patch today so we will he will spend another night at the vets. But they said he was comfortable.

Myrtle had very bad diarrhoea last night but she has recovered now. She must have been so stressed with the whole situation of car journeys, a new bun, and being taken away from her normal living conditions she is flopped out now in the middle of the living room

It might have been the other way around - if Myrtle had an upset tum, that might have been what caused her to lash out.

If you want to give us a few more details of how / where / how long you have been bonding them, we might be able to suggest the best way forward...

thank you Sparky!

We took Myrtle to the rabbit rescue for a match up on Saturday. The first bun she was with had recently been rescued as he was fighting with other male rabbits. He fought with Myrtle.

Myrtle was then put with a 14 week old bun (Patch!) he licked her head, then stomped and ran off to the corner off their bonding pen. He repeated this a few times. Myrtle just stayed in the corner.

We brought them both home in the same carrier, they were a little bit frightened but not of each other. When we got back we put them in the shed which we had cleared out. There were places for hiding.

Myrtle went to nip Patch when he hopped in the same litter tray as her and was quite frightened after that.

After a night of lots of stomping and us dashing out to check on them, we decided to bring them both inside.

Myrtle is a free range house bunny so the only place inside that is neutral is the bathroom - she has never been in there.

They got on for a bit and were quiet all Sunday night. However on Monday afternoon, I found Patch up on the shelf (from some boxed in pipes) and some blood.

I cleaned the area out to check for more blood and try to find out what had happened, Myrtle hated the tiled floor - she's not good on slippery surfaces (it had newspaper over before) and tried to get up on the boxing to Patch.

I helped her up and while I vacuumed up Myrtle licked Patch on his back and lowered her head for Patch to lick her but Patch wouldn't.

I found more blood and called the vet and took him (and Myrtle) in the same carrier in to the vet straight away.

Patch had a gash in his right cheek, through the skin but not through any muscle and a pussy, crusty right eye.

He has been kept in two nights at the vets for stitches.

When we got back home, Myrtle had bad diarrhoea.

I think thats everything, but please let me know if you want any more information.

Myrtle is back in the living room and has done normal poos throughout the day. Normally when I get back she has fresh hay and readigrass, which she jumps at, but today she just sniffed in its direction and went back in her tunnel. She has had a small piece of apple since then though.

Thanks again!

Paul (and Tina)

I am wondering if you have done Myrtle a disservice? Could Patch have caught himself on something in the bathroom whilst being nosey? The cheek is a strange place for buns to have damaged each other. I would think the most normals places for bun on bun damage is around the back leg area due to head to toe circular fighting or sniffing each other or mounting behaviours. Next to that I would expect to see damage on the nape of the neck from mounting or on the ears because they have thin fur there and are vulnerable. And from what you are saying Myrtle is showing all the right signals. I am not convinced that it follows that because she is hot and cold with you that she will be the same with Patch.

Do you have a room in which there is space to set up a couple of pens side by side with a gap between? (Or to divide the room in two with mesh?)

I think they would benefit from a slow bond - being next to each other, but not with enough room to get right away from each other (as Myrtle would be able to if you put Patch in a room with mesh across the doorway). And not in a situation where they could potentially get at each other through the barrier, hence the gap between pens.

My bond went like this:

I didn't go to the rescue as stress kicks off my pasteurella. Humum went and picked a neutered boy bun about my size. She brought him home and plonked us both in a small pen in the hall. I was all wide-eyed but Gizmo more or less completely ignored me. And ate my food Click for pics and the story of our first few days.

He got a bit humpy so they took us for a drive in the same carrier. She didn't trust us together that night so Gizmo went in a pen and I was free-range upstairs. The next day she put two pens up side by side and we had a side each. I was quite stressed and jumpy for a day or two, but then settled down.

Humum then went against most wisdom, and let us both out at the same time to free-range upstairs while she sat with us. This would usually be too much space too soon, but we were ok. Click for video.

One weekend she let us out and removed the barrier between the pens so when we went back in, we had one big pen. She did it over a weekend so she could supervise us as much as she needed to. Then we were like this

A couple of weeks later we had a big falling out. Story here. When we were back in side by side pens, I was showing a lot of aggression to Gizmo. Then my pasteurella flared up and I had a couple of weeks of living back under the bed and free-ranging upstairs while being treated. Meanwhile Gizmo had the whole pen to himself.

When I was better, she plonked us both in a very small pen in the driveway (I had stopped being hostile to Gizmo by now) Click for video. Despite our huge scrap, my hostility, Humum getting bitten and me being a bit of a madam, we rebonded fairly easily. She did make a point of building us a huge new pen (Gizmo cannot be trusted to free-range) on a new, neutral offcut of carpet so that neither of us got possessive over it plus having loads of new things to explore took our minds off being in a pen together.

We've been together and happy ever since


I think that you need to follow the basic rules of bonding - small space to start with, constant supervision and nothing in the pen they can get possessive over. (When Jack and Layla were bonded outside they didn't even have a litter tray to start with.) Then allow them more territory slowly. Bear in mind that if you bond them in the bathroom, when Myrtle gets into other areas of the house she might still be possessive. While they are bonding, wash everything of hers, neutralise all smells as much as possible and move 'her' area, toys, food bowls etc around so they are not where she is used to having them. Scatter-feeding them on the floor to start with can be helpful.

sendng vibes - it absolutely is not your fault x

Sending lots of bonding vibes, hope it all goes ok for you.

Lots more loves and cuddles on their way, come on sweetie, there are all sorts of lovely vibes on their way to you.

Hugs

JO xx

thank you all so much for all the vibes and advice! Patch is home now and getting comfy in the bathroom.

From reading what Sparky wrote, I think they had too many things with them (litter trays, twigs, etc).

I have got some pens so they will spend a few hours each day in pens side by side.

When it feels like the right time for them to be together, the nurse at the vet said we could go to her house.

Even though Myrtle hadn't been in the bathroom here before, I think she knew she was in the house and not far from where she is used to being.

I will post pics soon and updates how the bonding is going. Thanks again for all the great support and advice

I'm glad he is home and comfy

That's a lovely offer for your vet nurse to make Just bear in mind that if you bond them there, when you bring them home you will still need to keep a very close eye on them for a little while. In fact, I would bring them home and restrict their space for a while then gradually allow more when they are showing all the right signs.

Looking forward to piccies

What a lovely offer from your nurse. I hope it goes well!

It is a pity there arent more people like that lovely nurse, Glad he is back home and resting.

Hugs

JO xx

What a lovely offer, good news he's back safe and sound