Bertie poorly:-( Update 08.03????

Sending loads more top up vibes for Bertie, and hugs for you

Bertie is being given almost the maximum amount of metacam that used to be recommended for rabbits but current thinking is that up to double the amount you are giving is safe. But it needs to be advised/approved by your vet. I would certainly ask if you can up the amount you are giving and maybe split it so that Bertie is being dosed twice a day.

Richard Saunders is fantastic, I hope he can help. I know from another forum he has managed to diagnose and sort out a rabbit suffering from acid reflux, but this I believe is extremely rare.

It is so hard when you don't know what you are dealing with. More hugs and vibes coming your way xxx

Hoping Bertie is feeling better soon... sending get well vibes. Hugs x

Poor Bertie. And poor you

Keeping everything crossed here.

Sending more vibes for him. How much food is he taking in himself? I'd recommend 15-25 ml/Kg per feed. If he's picking, try with 15ml. What does he weigh? The standard Metacam dose for buns tends to be 0.3-0.6mg/kg and even up to 0.7 in some cases, but it needs to be carefully worked out depending on the drug concentration. It may be best to contact your vet, but I think he may be able to have the dose he is on every 12 hours. Please check this with your vet first, though. I know I had Dolly on 0.5ml twice a day and she was only 1.2 Kg.

Sending more vibes for you both. Look after yourself too, get plenty of sleep. Easier said than done, I know, but you will wear yourself out otherwise. xxxx

They have two scales in the surgery.
Wednesday scale in theatre 2.38kg
Saturday scale in consultan room 2.72kg
Today in consultant room 2.25
Thanks Sophia if I calculated right with the weight of today it would get me to 1.35 based on 0.6 per kg. would you mind lot double check this for me. Only so that when I speak to the vet I got the right numbers. I'm not good in maths at the best of times. Will start with 15.ml of recovery and take it from there.

With regards metacam John told me that buns need 5X as much twice as often.

So if a dog weighed 1kg and needed a 1kg dose once a day... a bun that weighed 1kg would need a 5kg dose twice a day. It seems like a massive amount, but daisy has been on this for the last 5 years and is now 7... the last checks on his kidneys showed he was fine. Charlie and annie who weigh 2.5 kg both get a 12 kg dose twice a day.

A lot of vets are not up to speed on the latest recommended doses so its worth asking about.

Loads more vibes for Bertie and for you.

If you think he might have aspirated any food he could need abx - this is recommended for any bun who has had a choking episode.

I agree with the increased metacam - it can cause stomach problems in dogs so some vets are wary of it in bigger doses, but it simply does not seem to cause the same problems in buns.

Re the metacam dose. If Bertie weighs 2.25 kg then under Katie's and John Chitty's doseage he could have a 11.25kg dog dose twice a day.

A 11.25kg dog dose is 0.74ml so Bertie can be given up to this amount every 12 hours. Certainly I think Bertie can have more than he currently is getting.

I hope that there has been some improvement today xx

Lots more cuddles to you both love, I do so hope things have improved.

Lots of love
Jo xx

Sixer wrote:Re the metacam dose. If Bertie weighs 2.25 kg then under Katie's and John Chitty's doseage he could have a 11.25kg dog dose twice a day.

A 11.25kg dog dose is 0.74ml so Bertie can be given up to this amount every 12 hours. Certainly I think Bertie can have more than he currently is getting.

I hope that there has been some improvement today xx

This sounds about right to me. But please check with your vet before increasing it, even if its just a quick phone call

Just a response to all of you.
Sorry I have been busy with three days of training. 
It was OH birtHday yesterday and we went out for a meal with his Daughter and son in law.
Whilst we went for the meal I charged my phone at his house and when we came back late in the evening I found a message from the vet to say the want to talk to me. Phoned today but Anna wasn't in. She has been in touch with Richard regarding his results. So I booked a double appointment for tomorrow 11.15.
Sparky , he is on Baytrill!and doesn't like it.
OH went in earlier and gave some treats which he enjoyed but all pellets were untouched.
He will eat greens with encouragement  and it takes him some time. So I'm off to do this and litter trays.
Will update you when back from the vet tomorrow. Any spare vibes are most welcome.

Thinking of you and Bertie this morning

c.bolduan wrote:Just a response to all of you.
Sorry I have been busy with three days of training. 
It was OH birtHday yesterday and we went out for a meal with his Daughter and son in law.
Whilst we went for the meal I charged my phone at his house and when we came back late in the evening I found a message from the vet to say the want to talk to me. Phoned today but Anna wasn't in. She has been in touch with Richard regarding his results. So I booked a double appointment for tomorrow 11.15.
Sparky , he is on Baytrill!and doesn't like it.
OH went in earlier and gave some treats which he enjoyed but all pellets were untouched.
He will eat greens with encouragement  and it takes him some time. So I'm off to do this and litter trays.
Will update you when back from the vet tomorrow. Any spare vibes are most welcome.

We are back from the vet after spending two hours with Bertie.
His blood results are not good
Creatinine is raised, so are neutrophils and red blood cells are low.
Calcium and phosphate are raised too.
He lost another 20 g. Since Monday.
Richard emailed us and suggest either a chronic infection in respiratory or urinary sytem or alternatively kidney/liver failure. To find out more we did obtain a urine sample via needle under bladder scan and X-ray is recommended regarding lungs and scull. As he was very slow to recover from the GA after his dental and the possibility of kidney involvement my vet feels he needs to be seen by a specialist.
I asked about John Chitty but it would be a long distance to travel. So we booked him in for tomorrow Neil Forbes clininc in Swindon. Neil is on Al we will see a vet by the name of Daniel Kavo.
He also had subcutaneous fluids today and Richard suggested to increase the Baytrill to double dose but half the metacam( no he want be very impressed, Bertie that is, but needs must!)
I'm glad the boy is insured and spoken to petulant as well.
So dear hoppers can I be demanding and ask for another top up of vibes? 
I feel he slipping out of my hands.

Sending so, so many for vibes for you and your precious boy

I really hope the specialist can help you xxx

Come on, Bertie! You can do it!!

Oh darling, I am sending lots of healing and loving vibes to you and he, please keep us posted.

Hugs
JO xx

Oh poor Bertie!!! Many, Many top up vibes for Bertie & for you, let us know when you can how thinks are going, I've been sick butI have kept with the mails, try to get some rest 
 Judy

Oh no, poor Bertie Sending all the vibes in the world, and hoping that this may be a respiratory /urinary infection that can be treated or managed, without doing any serious damage.

The kidney/liver failure route is what took little Dolly  First her kidneys, then the stasis and then the liver.

Mega top up vibes for Bertie , how is he doing today hun?

marleyNfriends wrote: Oh no, poor Bertie Sending all the vibes in the world, and hoping that this may be a respiratory /urinary infection that can be treated or managed, without doing any serious damage.

The kidney/liver failure route is what took little Dolly  First her kidneys, then the stasis and then the liver.

All hoppers, 
I'm glad to have you to talk to even if it is in this virtual space.
No one else does understand.
Talked to OH earlier who wanted to tell me that Bertie may not  be Ill at all but just had fallen from the hutch onto one of their toys and now suffers from bruising. Bless him he wants to be helpful. But frankly is not. So it told him. Stop talking rubbish, I know when a bun isn't well and let me get on with it. Cruel hoomin she is.
Though we are interested and involved in complementary medicines and he gave me a fair advice of using a PEMF device that he left here . PEMF stands for ?? Electro magentive frequency, can't figure it all out yet?! 
 I certainly will give it a go. It is used to treat horses and other animals and on setting1 you Can achieve pain relief and reduce of any swelling. Nothing to loose than.
On top of his nebuliser he has now to put up with bach remedies, PEMF,  Reiki( that's the nice part he loves) and energetic massages. 
Is it my work as a nurse in palliative care or is it real? I look at this being and what I see  is disease.
I observed something earlier when serving dinner.
You all know what a bunny lookes like after food. First thing lets groom. Usually up on back limbs to do your face. Bertie wasn't doing it in the normal way. He raised half up, with his right front paw still on the ground cleaning the left side and tha swabbed over to do the same with his left paw and cleaning the right side of his face. 
Is he to weak to sit up on his hinds? He looks very wobbly at most times.? Does this alter his quality of live?
I just so wish they could display a little clearer. 

I have no advice really, just thinking of you and Bertie and hope all the meds and treatment start to bring about an improvement.

Is he eating any more himself?

How old is he, Claudia?

Thumper washed her face like that a lot when she was an old lady.

Loads more vibes for Bertie, I hope the specialist has come up with something easy to treat

Loads more vibes for Bertie.

Sending more vibes. Hows he doing? What are his poops like, just out of interest. xx