Update on George and Gemma

I was sitting on the settee watching Corrie earlier - sad I know - and George and Gemma were under the coffee table. I kept glancing at them and noticed Gemma washing George's face - and he was letting her! I think they have bonded!!

I'm now worrying in case the lounge is too small a room to keep them in permanently. I just daren't risk letting them in the kitchen because of the cat flap. In the nicer weather they will be outside and they do have space in the lounge to hop around and will have more when I move the run and dog crate at the weekend. I think I am turning into a neurotic Bunny Mummy

I think they are happy in the lounge as they like the rug under the coffee table and the cushions on the window seat - and the sleeping bag by the radiator behind the settee!! Mmm - doesn't sound like they are too hard done by really does it?

They are always near each other now so I think they like each other. George has really relaxed more too. He just seems a happier bunny and I think both of them have accepted me as their Bunny Mummy

Sounds like they have arrived at bunny nirvana. My pair are always near each other. It is really funny watching them. If Wolfie climbs up onto the roof of the hutch, Gloria is up too (in case he has found food and she is missing out!), if she goes into the 'sitting' box, he is squeezed in too. When she goes off somewhere on her own, he goes around looking for her. He likes to know where she is and vice versa.

Living with fur children is certainly a roller coaster ride!

I got up a bit later this morning and found a dead mouse in the porch - not the buns - one of my cats had left me a 'present'. I went in the lounge to see how George and Gemma are and it was a real mess. Plant upside down, TV mag with front page eaten, remotes on the floor, the 'barrier' to behind the TV knocked down, hay absolutely everywhere, cardboard all over the floor from their big box and lots of fur. The more worrying thing was blood on the sofa. I've taken the throw off as there was a puddle on there so the blood stood out more. Instant panic!!

Gemma was in the run so I checked her over. I thought all her neck was bleeding and then realised it was her lighter brown splodges. She seemed fine but was fed up when I turned her upside down. George was behind the settee and did not want to be caught. When I picked him up he kicked and kicked. Even treats didn't work to calm him down. I put him on the settee and tried to check him which was difficult as he struggled so much. In the end I put him upside down - not ideal I know, but I saw where I think the problem is. By where his furry teabags would have been the fur is bald and there is a sore spot and dried blood. It doesn't look deep but I don't know what is causing it. I let him go and he jumped on the floor and thumped his back legs. I am NOT in favour

If it was just a scratch I'd put sudacrem on it and keep an eye on it as I do with the other buns and cats but I need to know why this is happening and he may need antibiotics so I am going to finish work early and take him to the vet at 4.20 pm. My vet would have fitted me in this morning if I'd said George needed to be seen asap but I don't want to take advantage of that - George is eating and drinking and is now on the rug again. I don't think he is suffering at all.

I did check both George and Gemma underneath when I put them together as they were both humping each other so much and they were fine. It looks as though his legs are rubbing or something and it has made him sore but I didn't like holding him on his back for long so only had a very quick look.

I need to persevere with getting him used to being handled as I live on my own and it's difficult to check a bunny who keeps kicking. He never tries to bite me though - which is a relief!!!

So - please send healing vibes to my little man. I just hope it's nothing I've done wrong which has caused it, but I can't think of anything. If I have to put cream on him regularly I am going to struggle, although I do have a local friend who would probably come and help me.

On the positive side, despite all the fur around the room, George and Gemma seem happy on the rug together.

I need to work out a way of stopping getting hay spread quite so far though - my lounge was the only 'tidy' room in the house! It looks like a farmyard now

Took George to be checked. The vet couldn't see anything wrong with the area I thought was sore - but George was struggling so much when I looked it was a very brief glance. He did however find some scabs on George Quite a few tiny ones. I'm not sure why I never felt them but I tend to give George ear rubs and nose strokes as he seems to like those.

The vet isn't sure if the scabs have been caused by Gemma biting George or him scratching himself as a result of fleas or mites. He couldn't see any fleas or mites but has given me some Advantage to put on both George and Gemma just in case.

He also suggested I separate them at night as this is probably when Gemma hurts George (if she does). I'm torn about whether to do this or not as I hate the idea of George being beaten up but they seem to lie together now and I am not sure he would do that if Gemma was hurting him. The vet said they may be very different when I am not watching them as they see me as Big Bun and behave more when I am around, which is a good point.

I was only charged for the Advantage, not the consultation, which was a relief.

I've got to give the lounge a really good clean when I finish work tomorrow so will be spending a lot of time in there. I may separate George tonight and put Gemma in the dog crate so he can have a stressfree night. She will hate it as it's not that big.

Maybe I need to start the bonding again and put them both in a much smaller area like the shower-room. The lounge is probably far too large.

Suggestions welcome.

Well, I didn't separate them overnight. Gemma has found an old doll with a straw hat - or it did have a straw hat! - and seems to have been busy with that.

I fed them earlier and have just been in to see them before work and Gemma was eating my doll's hat and George was eating his food. When I took the doll away from Gemma she went and chased George and he hid behind the sofa.

I hate the idea of him being scared and was horrified the vet found scabs on him. Having said that even though I know they are there I can only feel them by running my hands up his fur the wrong way so I guess that's how I missed them. They are really tiny. I still feel a really bad Bunny Mummy though and will start stroking his whole body now, not just his face and ears.

I am wondering whether to assume Gemma hasn't been neutered, book her in for the end of next week when I get paid and separate them in the meantime. My concern with that is that the dog crate really isn't big enough to keep Gemma in long term. The only other option is to let George free range - he is nowhere near as destructive as Gemma, keep the run and try and rig up a cover over it so Gemma can't escape.

What do you think folks? I do feel a complete failure with the bonding as I did think it was going well. Gemma is definitely the dominant bunny but maybe she will quieten down if I get her spayed - although if the vet finds she has already been done, I will be annoyed with myself for putting her through an unnecessary anaesthetic and surgery.

I so wish I could speak fluent bunny and could ask George what he wants. I've got to go to work shortly but will be home this afternoon and will spend the afternoon with Gemma and George, cleaning up the chaos that is my lounge and watching them interact.

I'd really appreciate any suggestions from you Wise Bunny Owners. And please be gentle with me - I really do feel very bad about George having these scabs, although the vet didn't suggest antibiotics or cream or anything - they really are extremely tiny which is probably why he thought they could be flea related. If they are, the Advantage will sort it as both bunnies have now been treated - and boy doing George was hard as he was already stressed after his vet visit, but I wanted to do it asap and I got there with him in the end.

Oh chick, I can understand totally what you are going through, bunnies can cause so much stress for us I remember when the bond broke down between Hollie, Herbie and Rosie - an absolute nightmare of a few days, I still can't believe that three small furry creatures could cause so much angst.

As for your two if the scabs are very tiny I would think it highly unlikely that Gemma has caused these. Try not to beat yourself up over them, they are not your fault. When Rosie and Hollie came to me Rosie had a big scab on her back where Hollie had got carried away humping and nipping. I didn't notice this for a couple of days and it had also been missed by two others, one of whom was a vet. None of us here thinks at all badly of you for missing a few tiny scabs on George.

I have no real advice on George and Gemma's relationship, but spending the afternoon watching them interact I am sure is a good idea. Let us know later how it goes.

Sending huge hugs and calming vibes to you all xxx

Aaaw thank you. I was scared to read what had been written in case people were going to have a go at me for missing the scabs. The vet noticed the first one where he had given George his myxi jab and thought that was what had caused it and then the nurse who was holding George felt his fur all over and spotted some more. They can only be seen by parting the fur which is what she did.

Neither of them said anything to imply I was a bad Bunny Mummy and the vet said straight away he wanted to treat George for fleas - but then I'd have thought I'd have spotted fleas if that was the problem. I guess with hindsight I should have treated both buns when I introduced Gemma but it didn't occur to me and when Gemma went for her vet check up the vet didn't notice any on her.

I've just got in as I went to buy the buns some fresh veg after work. I got them some carrots with tops yesterday in a veg shop and a lovely old lady said I could have her tops for the buns too so they are doing well for yummy food at the moment. When I went in the lounge Gemma was on the window seat and George under the table. Gemma came to see me and George ran behind the settee - poor love.

The lounge looks like a farmyard. I need to give it a good clean. I will see how my fur babies are when I am in with them, although they don't seem to fight in front of me.

Thanks for the hugs and the calming vibes - I need them!!!

Hi Hun,

You should never think anyone on here would be horrible to you. What we can all see is a lovely lady doing her very best for two buns who couldnt be luckier to have an owner like you.

I wish there was something i could say to help. But i have no experience of bonding. It sounds like the majority of the time they are getting on fine....and having a fab time eating your belongings and spreading hay around.....( sounds like party time to me - ha ha).

Again i just think this is a game of patience.

I think they have plenty of space in the front room. As for the hay - it was driving me mental too so I went and got a plastic basket and put the hay in it. Daisy hops in for the hay and hops out again....there is a little bit of escapee hay but most of it is contained. it was inspired a bit by the hay tidy Jay invented. But i think any box they have to get into to eat the hay would help. hoping to get over to see you next weds night if you're free hun??? I have little prezzie for them.

Stick with it - I know its stressful but im possitive its going to be okay.

K x x

Thanks Katie. I have been trying to sort the lounge out for four hours now! A friend brought me over his spare hoover as mine had given up but I have managed to block that and have had to unscrew the hose part. I did use a dustpan and brush for the bigger bits of hay but the smaller ones seemed to clump together and stop it working!

I've tried to block off the TV area and have got rid of the run and dog cage from the lounge so they have more space to run around. Both buns have got stressed with me moving things and hoovering.

I've found a washable rug to put down so they don't have the bare boards on their paws. I am hoping they will prefer that to the rug under the coffee table which isn't washable.

I've got their little wicker house out with some vet bed in and it's nice and cosy. I will have to try and work out what to do with the hay. It's all over the house as it sticks to my shoes or socks and then I tread it through the other rooms A plastic basket sounds a good idea. I'd like to make them a dig box too as they both love digging the cushions on the window seat.

I am spending the evening in with George and Gemma and hopefully they will settle down and be OK together. Have some more carrot tops to give them as a treat to make up for them being disturbed while I cleaned.

Yes, I am in all Wed eve and it will be lovely to see you. George and Gemma say they like little prezzies and will be especially pleased to see you!

I hope college went OK today? Doesn't sound much fun but I guess it will be worth it if you can earn more - you can rehome more buns then

Matt will think I am a bad influence on you!!!

xxxx

AWWW DONT WORRY ABOUT THE SCABS ...ITS COMMON WHEN BONDING ..GEORGE WILL BE FINE ..

Aw sweetheart no one here would have a go at you. Never. Unless you came on and said that you were beating your rabbit or something lol! Scabs on bunnies happen, even the most bonded buns can have scuffles. They are proving to be a tough pair aren't they but listen, relax as much as you can and see how things flow. You will be amazed, if you are chilled about it all they might chill a bit! Hugs x

Thanks Angie and CW. I'd never beat up the buns - it's more the other way around when I try to check George over - boy can that bun kick

I spent a long time with them yesterday trying to clean and sort out the chaos they had made of my lounge! and when I eventually sat down and watched them, they really did seem fine together. They were on the rug side by side at one point and later on they ate together.

This morning when I went in to feed them George was on the rug and Gemma behind the settee on the sleeping bags by the radiator. There were no piles of fur for the first time ever!! Lots of hay all over the lounge but I am going to have to try and work out something to reduce that a bit. Because I want to encourage hay eating I have it in both their litter trays, in an old Whiskas box and in a wicker plant pot holder.

They have a lot more room to run around now I have moved the run and dog crate outside the room. George puts his front paws on the edge of the settee when I am lying down watching TV but he won't jump up and see me - yet. I think he will though. He loves his ears and face being stroked.

I am more chilled now - but yes, they have been tougher to bond than I expected. I found it easier bonding six buns - four girls and two boys. The vet suggested I got someone to bond George and Gemma for me but I wanted to do it myself - I can be tenacious when I set my mind to it!!! I have found it very stressful though - just in case no-one noticed The support I have got from here has made all the difference -I don't think I could have done it without that - so thank you all lots and lots and lots!!!!

Bonding is never easy hun. The occasional one goes like a dream but in general rabbits are freaks when it comes to being friends lol!

Rhianna, you're an awesome bunny mum! People on HH are so nice and supportive they would never yell at you!!

You'll get there! It takes time and creativity but someday in the near future George and Gemma will be living happily and neatly in your lounge!

Loving the updates still!

All is going well - am almost scared to say it!!

Both bunnies are spending most of their time in the main part of the lounge. I had a few droppings and a big puddle to clear up this morning but have just moved one of the litter trays to that corner of the room so hopefully that will sort the problem out.

I went in just now and both are snuggled up on the rug.

I am not spending as much time with them now Gemma is here to keep George company. I was coming home throughout the day and spending time with George as I was so worried about him being lonely but I couldn't have carried that on indefinitely and still kept my job, so I am relieved he and Gemma do seem to be getting on.

They have me in the evenings when I am not working but have each other during the day. I do still come home and check, and always will, but not so often and I don't feel guilty when I go out socially any longer - but am still keen to get home to be with them. I find I am watching them more than the TV sometimes. It is wonderful seeing them eating and bouncing around. George especially seems to smile when he is munching away - he so loves his food, that bun. I sometimes feel tearful watching him and just wish I could adopt all the homeless buns who have been abused. Must keep doing the lottery!!!

It has taken time, but I really do think we are getting there and am so pleased I persevered. I think getting house bunnies was the best decision I have made for a very long time. I will never forget my little Justin and still miss him loads but I think he would be pleased I have given two other buns a home.

I now keep thinking about my empty hutch and run outside - must be sensible, must be sensible.

I need to decide whether to get Gemma spayed before I think about maybe adopting any more buns. I forgot to ask my vet about an ultrasound to check if she has been spayed or not when I took George in as I was so stressed about him.

Both George and Gemma are looking forward to seeing Auntie Katie on Wednesday. Gemma is a real tart and seems to prefer my male friends though.

I am much more relaxed about operation Rabbit Romance now and can really enjoy my fur babies and try and get George more used to being handled - my next challenge!!

Katieb wrote:You should never think anyone on here would be horrible to you. What we can all see is a lovely lady doing her very best for two buns who couldn't be luckier to have an owner like you.

Couldn't have put it better myself This is a supportive forum, we do not seek to make people feel bad, just give support and help when we can, please don't worry, yours, and all of our posts re: health etc are there to be learned from, and this blog thread is great reading, and very helpful

I've just read the whole thread from the beginning - wow - I'd forgotten how it was when George first arrived and am so glad I've got this record to keep.

I know I wrote how patient I was - and then found later on that I wasn't as patient as I thought I was. Having George has certainly taught me lots about myself as well as about bunnies - and I am incredibly grateful to him for enriching my life and for letting me be his Bunny Mummy.

I really love this site - it is amazing and I feel like I know people on here, despite only ever having met Katie and Sooz (briefly) in real life.

I am sure George's adventures will continue - he has a lot of mischief to get up to yet - I can tell by the glint in his eyes

I thought it was all going too well. There were lots of little piles of fur around today - and Gemma has started picking up one of their litter trays and throwing the litter and hay everywhere. She has also munched her way through half the front cover and the first page of my Argos catalogue. Maybe she will stop when she finds something she wants me to buy?

I don't really know how to stop my lounge looking like a farmyard. There was hay spread everywhere before - now it is joined by wood cat litter!! They scatter it faster than I can clean it up!

I do think overall they are getting on OK. They are both often on the rug together and Gemma was grooming George again yesterday. I gave them a parsley plant this morning and now there are only stalks - I think they liked it

I am trying to get them to learn their names by calling them and giving them a treat but they both come to both names.

Both of them have started using their little wicker house - although George was eating it yesterday. I hope he takes his time as I can't afford to keep replacing it.

They are disappointed Auntie Katie is poorly and can't visit them but send her lots of special healing nose rubs and look forward to seeing her soon - and getting their little pressie!

A little tip ...get one of those underbed storage boxes to use as a litter tray ... the sides will be higher so less escaping hay ...room for both to get in together...and bigger and heavier so less likely to be thrown around and tipped up

or the base of an indoor plastic bottomed cage...shame your not nearer i have one you could have had

naughty buns

Thanks Angie. I will definitely try that. I tried to get the worst of it up with a dustpan and brush but even then the hoover blocked repeatedly when I vacuumed up what was left.

Yesterday the little darlings had even more fun. They got the huge bag of hay in the lounge, chewed through the side and spread most of the contents over the lounge floor. It looked like it had been raining hay when I walked in the lounge!! It's my own fault for leaving the bag in the lounge - it has now been moved!!!

I am still getting the odd puddle and stray droppings but overall both buns seem to be litter trained. Considering that is the reason given for rehoming Gemma I am sure it was just an excuse.

George and Gemma do spend time together but also seem to want their own space. They both seem happy enough and love their food - although again they throw the dish around so it is spread everywhere.

I am so glad I took a risk and rehomed Gemma to keep George company. He is definitely happier now and I am far less stressed about him being lonely. I will never understand why Gemma was rehomed as she is absolutely gorgeous - a total cuddle bun. But at least she was taken to PAH - poor George was just abandoned and although not a cuddle bun he loves his ear rubs and is a friendly little chap. He has certainly made my life a whole lot brighter. Some bunny owners are totally incomprehensible.

No news for a week Hows things going ?

I did write a post earlier in the week but had lost my connection (PC too old to have broadband) and so lost it when I went to send.

I haven't spent that much time with the terrible two this week as I've been out a lot - mostly working - but they are both absolutely fine and busy slowly eating my lounge

I found one of my huge floor cushions chewed this morning. They have also shredded two sleeping bags, some wallpaper and another cushion.

I bought them a lovely little wicker house which now has a window . I just wish they would concentrate on that and their toys rather than my things.

They sit on the window sill a lot and look out at the garden and I feel very mean not letting them out but I still think it is too cold, although I do read that some indoor buns are going out now for part of the day. What do you all think? I have my heating on low all day so the house is quite warm.

I have hay spread all over the house - as it's on the lounge floor and I end up walking it through the house.

On the positive side they have definitely bonded. Gemma washes George's face and he is happy to let her. They don't spend that much time together but regularly 'check' in with each other, if that makes sense. They are so different when I feed them. I give them a bowl each but put them side by side. George stands by his bowl and slowly munches his way through his food with a big smile on his face. Gemma has a nibble, goes for a bounce around, goes back and has another nibble and then is off again exploring. George is still there, ploughing through his food. Both eat their broccoli first if they have any in their dish. They both eat veg before their SS pellets.

George now comes up to me when I am on the settee and puts his paws on the edge of the settee but won't jump up and see me - yet. He clearly wants to though. He is happy to be stroked but still hates being picked up. He has definitely got bigger - not just more cuddly, but overall bigger. I don't think he is overweight but will get the vet to check when I take him for his next myxi jab.

I think they are both happy enough but will be much more content when they can go out in the garden. I do worry about confining them to one room but am too scared about them escaping out of the cat flaps to let them out downstairs. If they made a dart for it I wouldn't be quick enough to stop them. I just daren't take the risk.

George is totally unphased by the cats - and Gemma chases them! The cats are only allowed in the lounge when I am in so they don't have unsupervised access but it is the cats I worry about getting hurt, not the bunnies.

I am so glad I rehomed Gemma as George is definitely much happier now he has bunny company and I feel much less guilty about working evenings as well as during the day. I spend more time with them at weekends and find I am watching them both rather than the TV - they are so much more entertaining.

Thank you for asking, Jay. I am relieved that things are going well - but worry I am tempting fate by writing that

Good to get my George and Gemma fix

Glad to hear your bonding trauma is over.

Have you thought of getting a pen similar to the one I showed you that I have daisy?

It was about £30 and its really easy to put up and take down. you could pop it round them and their stuff while you are out or at night to prevent the damage? i know its more expense but ive found it works a treat!

Glad to hear they are doing sooooo brilliantly - sounds like they are keeping you on your toes but bringing you lots too..

Nose rubs from auntie katie and cousin daisy

George and Gemma are still happy, bouncy bunnies.

A friend came over on Sunday and said how much happier George looks. He agrees with me that he has got bigger now - all over, not just more cuddlly.

They have definitely bonded now and I think George has started to reassert himself a bit. I usually feed them in two separate bowls but the washing up had got a bit behind so I put the food in one big bowl and Gemma started eating it. George came over, lifted the bowl in his mouth and took it away from Gemma and then spread the food over the floor so they both had access to it!! Clever bun!!!

I found a hole in the throw over my settee today and a big puddle on there too so wasn't impressed. My settee is 23 years old and falling to bits but I keep thinking of getting one of these £10 a month ones as I would love a new one. I daren't risk it if the two fur monsters are going to chew the furniture though.

I could get a run for them but I am out for such long periods of time they would end up caged for too long really. If I only worked during the day, it would be OK, but I work evenings too. I could let them out when I work from home but I don't want them to be confined - I feel guilty enough that they only have one room to free range in.

Is there anything I could spray on the furniture to try and stop them chewing it? They have a little wicker house and have chewed through the back of this, the roof and sides. They have chew sticks, boxes and chew toys. Gemma is slowly munching her way through my Argos catalogue too, so it's not like they have nothing they are allowed to chew.

I thought of putting post-it notes on the stuff saying 'This is OK' and 'Not this' but my friend didn't think it would work - can't think why not!